Plastic Surgery opinions?

[ToraTiger]

Michael-5 said:

ToraTiger said:

Michael-5 said:

ToraTiger said:

Michael-5 said:

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Isn't most Asian music more similar to 90's Pop music in Western Society? I don't think it's really influenced that much by western culture, I rarely hear a Japanese Rock song. However there is intermixing, and in general asians get more influence from Westerners then Vice versa, but that's starting to change. K-Pop and J-Pop are becoming bigger and bigger in Western Culture, I mean how big was Gangnam Style a couple months back?

Shit off topic....Plastic surgery. Yes, Western Influence is greater in Asia then Asian influence is here. If the asian influence were strong here, people would not be as obese as they are now LOL.

You are kinda right. Double Eye lid surgery is encouraged, most asian girls get it, and big eyes are considered sexy. Plus asians do die their hair.

However to be fair, I would argue that the influence isn't from Western Culture to Eastern Culture. I don't think anyone, except for Americans, try to look more American. I think the bulk of the influence comes from central and northern Europe. Most people to artificially change their appearance die their hair blonde and get blue contacts. Asians and Americans alike, we're all trying to look swedish or scandenavian.

Oh, that was an error.  XD my bad.    You knew what I met, I assume.  

As for Asian music.  It varies depending on country.  Japense prefer Rock music, and classical music, while chinese seem to enjoy R&B a lot.

As for Koreans, their music is full of hip hop, and more modern pop and dance music.  It's VERY similar to American music. (Just listen to Gangnam style, it sounds a lot like a L.M.A.O song or something ) Most of their songs contain at least serval english lines, using freuquently used words in American culture, like "swag", "haters", "fly" and several others.  You can youtube a lot of Kpop artists plaugerizing American music, just to add.

As for Westerners starting to be influenced by Asians, I think that's a long time away before we can even consider it at all.  I mean I'm pretty sure the only reason Americans like K-Pop is because how similar it is. Imo.  Seeing as Korean is by far the most popular type of asian music in the west, and all the popular bands/singers in Korea that made it big in American are all techno/hip-hop artists with few exceptions.  

For the obese thing, I think that's more of a social thing than a cultural one.  

Back on the topic of surgery, well they're definietly trying to look white, that's for sure.  Be it a German, English or  sweddish.  But I think it's safe to assume American, since they've already imitated so much from it already.  Hell, even their fashion sense is disturbingly similar.  

I don't mean to come off as racist or prejudice, (because really, I'm not) or even a hater or anything.  

About K-Pop, Question is did music like Gangnam style exist in Korea before LMFAO, or was PSY influenced by Americans? From what i've heard of K-Pop, their music has been like that for a while, and I think Americans know about Gangnam style because of how similar it is to American Pop. Essentially I think neither strongly influences the other, they just both coincidently sound similar, and because of it you will see a lot more intermixing in the future.

As for the Obese thing, what do you mean social instead of cultural? I'm curious because I look at it as a cultural thing, and lately (especially in places like California) you're seeing a trend where more and more people eat oriental food because it's healthier and will keep you skinnier. This is American dining (and Canadian, and European too) mimicing Korean.

If you go to Korea, you will rarely see McDonalds, and people doesn't really eat American there like we eat Korean/Japanese/Chinese. I feel a similar situation is happening with Oriental food as happened with Italian food in the past. In Italy you will have trouble finding American diners, but in the USA Pizza Pizza, and other pizza/pasta chains have exploded. Many of them have become Americanized (Italians wouldn't recognize pizza pizza as pizza, but some high salt fast cooked American interpretation of their food).

I can't argue fashion, I don't know what goes on there.

As for Plastic Surgury (the topic in the op), I see a difference. How many Americans are naturally blonde? Isn't USA the mixing pot of the states? What's the definitive American look? Blonde Hair and Blue eyes for sure isn't it, that's swedish, and I think there are more Americans then asians per captia dying their hair blond. Asians aren't really dying their hair brown, maybe red, but not brown. However a lot of American girls straighten their hair to mimic asian hair styles. They don't do it specifically to mimic the asians maybe, but straight hair is only natural in asians since their hair is denser, and thus heavier and straight. However at the same time Double Eyelid Surgury is very common among asian girls, where Cateye Surgury is a pretty small phenomena with Americans. So it turms of plastic surgury, more Asians are mimicing white people (and in this case Americans too), but in terms of culture, more Americans are imitating Asians (Diets, Straight Hair, Black Hair, etc)

So I'll agree with you, a high percentage of asians are trying to look white, specifically swedish, but I won't agree with you that they are trying to look American overall. If you go to Korea, or Japan, muscles on women are frowned upon, and aren't athletic body types considered hot in USA? Europe tends to favor slim girls over athletic as well. So if I were to be specific, Asians are imitating Northern Europeaners.

Americans on the other hand, they aren't imitating anyone, they are just trying to become more shocking, and this is the new American look. Orange Skin, Breast Implants, Calf Implants (to look more muscular), Fat injections to the lips, blond hair, blue eyes, tatoos (I wouldn't associate any other country as strongly with tatoos), and a lot of make up on girls. This is very different from the typical European clean look, where most women are just naturally beautiful (except the english) because of good diets and high maintenance (Not in a make-up way, in the way where they takes care of themselves, cook home cooked meals and in general live healthier).


P.S. Please tell me why you think Obesity is a Social thing and not a cultural. Isn't the Fast Food buisness a heavy part of American culture (like it or not)? Aren't Burgers and pop a culturally American meal? Aren't Steakhouses predominantly integrated with American diets?

 

Korean music became westernized relatively recently, probably around 2005, don't know for sure, just look at 'Kpop' on wikipedia for that.   Also, I can't see how you think the similarities are just a 'coincidence', when they also dance the same, dress the same, and even speak 'American english' in the marjority of their songs, while also passing the same 'swag' image into it.   Lastly, If you look at a Korean top 50 music chart, you'd see tons of American singers on it, while on the other hand, if an Asian charts in America, it's news worthy, and only a handful have been able to accomplish this feat.  If someone can view this as a coincidence, that is beyond me.

I do agree with you that Chinese, Japanese and Korean foods are popular in america, though I don't think it's because people view it as healthy.  That stuff can hardly be considered healthy, it's full with sodium and carbs, and is probably the reason Asians are so short and usually lack muscle mass.   On the same hand, while Asian food maybe popular, so is Mexican, Italian,  and French food.  All the ones I named are far more popular than Korean food in America.  And on the other hand, I read somewhere that McDonalds is the most widespread food chain in the world.  And I'm sure their are a considerable amount in Korea, as in Japan.   So I think it's about even in the culinary space, being fair.  

Back on the topic of surgery, the thing is in America surgery is met with negative reception for the most part (Look at previous posts in this thread) and many people see the 'jersey' look,  a small minority mind you, as ridiculous or just weird.  As opposed to Korea where double-eyelids, V-jaws, and western noses are seen as almost universal beauty, and is so encouraged.  These are things that most of them aren't going to be born with anyway, so basically, in Korea few women are born beautiful.   They only achieve this after they acquire these very western standards of beauty through surgery, and I think that's just sad. 

How many white Americans have naturally blonde hair?  I'd say about a quarter, though many more dye it that color.    While on that topic, I feel like I need to correct you when you said you don't see a lot of brown hair in Asia and that Americans mimic Asian hair styles more.  That's not the case.  In Korea, brown makes up a vast majority of hair colors, while black, the color that most everyone is born with is not.   Many also have curly hair.  While in America, black hair isn't something that is a near impossibility to acquire, and at the same time way less Americans dye their hair black than compared to asians dying their hair brown.  I do concur that Americans do straighten their hair like Asians, but I don't see that as copying, neither do I see Asians curling it as such.    

When I said I see obesity more as a social problem, is because in America, various factors contribute to people becoming fat.  It could be that they spend a lot of time out and so they have fastfood, or they over eat for joy, or for celebration, or just plain over-eating.  Though I think  it could also be considered a cultural problem since it's so widespread.  Either works.

 

 

Honestly, I don't think it's a fair arguement to say that Asians influence Americans as much as the other way around.   One thing that comes to mind is to think about how seriously big Smartphones and tablets are in Korean culture.  Something that was invented, and popularized in the US.    I mean just look at how Samsung, a korean company is constantly being sued by Apple for copy-right infringement.   

Having said all that, I said that to say that America's influence is strong all over the world, but it's particularly strong in South Korea.   And I agree with you that Americans do try to be shocking, or outrageous.  Though I think this is why America's influences are so strong in so many places.  It's more 'creative', though that is not always a good thing.

So to summerize some of this, I think it's pretty insane to think that in terms of culture more Americans are mimicing Asians than vise versa, because of;

1.  American hairstyles are just as popular in Asian as vise versa if not more.  Curling and straightening is about equal

2.  Mobile technology, a major part of Korean culture, is something born and raised in USA. 

3.  Koreans like American music far more than Americans like Korean music, plus it's safe to assume Korean music is inspired by A-pop anyway.

4.  Korean food is hardly widespread here,  and their are at least 200 McDonald diners in Korea. 

Finally,  my analogy is this, if Koreans have already borrowed so many things from the USA, isn't it safe to assume that they're trying to look white to look American, and not European?  

 

Sorry for the late response. I got banned because I called Mugen a dick when he was acting like a dick. Worth it, but he's still being super arrogent and annoying, and wanting to butt rape me or something... lol

Coincidence - I dunno, I'm dating a Korean girl who moved from Korea in.... 2002. Oh well, yea, that's pre 2005. I know they use English in a lot of Korean songs, but most younger Korean people know english fairly well. It's not the official second language in Korea or Japan, but (especially in Japan) because a lot of media/products get exported (e.g. anime, games, etc) a little bit of English is often thrown into songs, and sometimes the primary title of a product is in english.

I don't think Korean/Japanese Pop stars dress anything at all like American/European Pop Stars. Nooo way. I also don't see too much of a resemblance in music. You don't see people who dress like Niki Menage or Christina Agulara (I know I spelt them wrong) in Asia.

Food - Asian food in USA is salty and full of carbs, but real oriental food is very different. This is the same as pizza in USA and Itally. American corporations add tons of salt to food to encourage drink sales because drinks are where most companies make a profit.

It's really difficult to find a true Korean/Japanese restaurant in USA/Canada. I live in Toronto, and I only know of 1 truely authentic Japanese restaurant (Guu), and 2 authentic Korean restaurants (Local). Most have horribly altered, westernized menus. Did you know that Chow Mein was invented by a Chinese American and is not actually a chinese dish, but an American one?

In Japan and Korea, there are very very few western chains. Did you know that Wal-Mart pulled out of South Korea because of a lack of sales? McDonalds survived, but even then it's really really uncommon in Korea, and fairly uncommon in Japan. Plus in Korea and Japan, the menu is heavily Easternized (They have a shrimp burger!).

As for Asians being short, if their food was malnourishing them, they wouldn't be skinny, and their average life expectancy wouldn't be higher then that of a European/American, but it is.

Plastic Surgery - Are V-Jaw's Caucasian Traits? My girlfriend and a lot of other asian girls I know have V-Jaws and they didn't have surgery. I actually think in general asian people (excluding chinese) more often tend to have oval shaped heads. I think the ethnicity which specifically doesn't have V-Jaws are Native Americans/Asians, and Central/South Americans.

Also what do you mean by western noses? I'm Eastern European, and all of us have gigantic noses, and I don't think it's considered beautiful. Most people I know usually make fun of people with big noses, and I believe in Eastern and Northern European people, nose reduction surgery is common. Can we argue that more asians get nose surgery then caucasians? I dunno, I didn't know that was a common asian surgery until now

As for the Jersey Shore look, while you and I might think it's dumb......I think there are a lot of....I'm going to go with inbred (I know they aren't, but it feels right), Americans/Canadians who think orange skin and fake boobs are hot. Sadly I think the fraction of people who find this hot is a high one here in North America.

Hair - I wouldn't say that Asians dying their hair brown mimics caucasians. When asian people get exposed to lots of sunlight, their hair turns brown (in the same way most caucasians hair will turn more blonde). I think, judging from the people I know, that that brown is to immitate a look which shows that. As for straightening/curling (perms are common in Asia) hair, I think it is an influence of the others culture, but it's equal in both directions.

As for Blond hair....you're spot on, I wikipedia's it. However Native Australians have the highest frequency of blonde hair, with a rate greater then 90%. When you think about it, a lot of Australians are Blonde. So......this just proves, we're trying to be Aussies?

Obesity What you described seems cultural. If you're so busy that you only have time for fast food, or your culture encourages over-eating and large portion meals, I think those are cultural factors, not social. Japanese people, and German people are known to be hard workers, and they don't encounter obesity problems in anywhere nearly as high numbers. So why do Americans have 10x more obese people then Japan/S.Korea and 3x as many as Germany? It's because fast food chains in the USA are really messed up, they add tons of salt to make you thirsty, and tons of sugar/fat because it's cheaper to produce. Fast Food places in Europe and Asia are typically a lot healthier, and the standards are much higher. It's culturally acceptable to eat crap in USA and arguably Canada/UK/Australia too, but in mainland Europe and Developed Asia, those standards are different.

Factoid. McDonalds used to make burgers from "100% Beef" correct? 100% Beef is the company name, the beef content in their burgers is about 20%. The rest is corn starch and high fructose corn syrup (basically sugar, which gets converted into fat).

Influence - Apple gets sued by Samsung just as often as the other way around. Also, while tablets were popularized by Americans, cell phones were popularized by the Japanese. Which is bigger?

1. I agree

2. I disagree. While Americans invented cell phones, the Japanese were the first to create an automated cellunar network, and it was only until. Also the evolution of cell phones has roots in all parts of the world. Americans made the 1G network, Europeans the 2G and 4G, and Japanese the 3G. Also while American pioneered cell phone technology, Nokia and Samsung took over the market. Apple is 3rd. Also Europeans created the first tablets, not Apple. - I had to look most of this stuff up, good debate.

3. I can agree with you here, but only because I dunno. J/K-Pop seems very different then A-Pop, but A-Pop did come first (I think)

4. There are 200 McDonalds Diners in a country with a population of 50 million? That's 4 restaurants per 1 million people. The population of Manhattan is 1.6 million people, with that McDonalds distribution, that would be about 6 McDonalds restaurants in the entire city....it's not that wide spread.

As for Asian food in North America, it depends where you live. In Toronto, Vancouver, Los Angeles, and Manhattan, there are more "asian" restaurants then anything else. However I bet in Dallas, Denver, and Los Vegas, that's probably not the case. Still most city's have a "China Town", but in Korea they do not have a "little USA."

Last point, most of the things you named which are "American" aren't. Blondes are most commonly Australian, Brown Hair is not done to immitate Caucasians, Cell Phones boomed because of the Europeans/Japanese (while invented by the Americans), Tablets were invented by Europeans, and aren't that popular in asian, Caucasians probably do more nose reduction surgery's then Asians do the opposite, there are more asian places in North America then there are American places in Asia, American culture isn't followed outside the USA much (people don't eat as much as Americans, and the Jersey Shore/Nikki Menage look isn't really seen outside the USA).

Also, one thing to add, tablets are only mosreatly popular in asian (it's not like here), but Nintendo dominates with it's handhelds everywhere, and Samsung is the largest cell phone company now, followed by Nokia. America's influence doesn't extend as far outside USA as you might think.

Also, since were talking about products, what's the best selling car of all time and largest car manufacturer? Toyota Corolla and Toyota, Japanese, thank you (and again Europeans invented the car). Who makes most TV? Samsung, and the make TV's for many other companies like Sony and Toshiba. Product wise, I think Americans are imitating the Japanese more then vice versa (cars are looking more Asian nowdays).

This is getting quite expansive..

Lol I didn't know you could get banned on here for calling someone a name. I had to have said that several times lol. Well, back on topic, I understand that a lot of things get imported so that requires a certain level of delicacy to insure that the product is met with the same impact as its original. But that being said, a lot is also imported from Asia, like China. Most everything is made in China and a lot of electronics are made and produced in Japan and Korea. On the fashion, if you look at the boy bands, they all wear hoodies, street shoes, jump-suits, sunglasses, ect. Like you said, not all of the female idols dress too much like Americans, but you'd still see someone wearing a overly eccentric dress like Katy Perry, or something completely obscure like Lady Gaga. I've stated this in my previous posts' because I read somewhere that American fashion lines are booming in South East Asia and I'm sure most Americans don't even know what Asian fashion looks like aside from Yukatas and Kimonos. A good amount of Koreans may know English, but I highly doubt most people there, even younger ones knows the meanings to all the english words that are used in the songs. Even if that were the case, alot of Koreans know Japanese and vise versa, but neither really borrow those words to use in their songs. That's like saying, just because alot of Americans know Spanish, then you'll automatically see Spanish references in its media. If the music doesn't sound similar to you, look at these. And these are some of the most popular artists in Korea, btw (G.Dragon, SNSD, B2ST, ect.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6b6dtwJI8I (20 seconds) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSIS_syd69s (1 minute.) On the food, dude I don't know. I've been to Indonesia once before, and I'd say that stuff was worse for you than fast-food. The reason they weren't blobs there with the stuff they were eating was because they probably eat about half as much as most Americans. I know that's not Korea, but it's still technically Asia. I do agree that the food is extra unhealthy in USA, because..well Americans love unhealthy food. Though I still don't think it's healthy even in Asia. Rice is super popular there, and that stuff is full with carbs. It's just not as fattening, and that's what most American's worry about. Any organic diet would be better suited for someone trying to be healthy. There is a massive market for McDonalds in Japan and Japan's a small Island. It's not exactly as popular in Korea, though it is definitely rising. Check out this article. http://briandeutsch.blogspot.com/2011/01/mcdonalds-korea-to-double-number-of.html And Wal-Mart isn't really a heavy hitter in metropolitan areas, so I wouldn't expect it to be a success in places like Korea or Japan. As for them being stunted by their diets, I think that's true. It's not exactly them being malnourished. Look, people need HGH to grow, either muscles or bone density. When you eat a lot of carbohydrates it inhibits your body's ability to secrete HGH. HGH also causes stress on the body (Growing pains ect) Also, There diets don't have as much fat in it, so I guess they substitute carbs for fat when it comes to energy. As for them living longer, that could be exercise, (a lot of Japaneses ride there bikes to places instead of bus) they don't eat as unhealthy, so they don't develop ailments like diabetes or increased-cholesterol or hypertension. Also, just to add, Asians have been known to grow a lot taller when they come to the west. Maybe fatter, but also taller. And yes, I guess obesity could also be a cultural problem, since america also has free food basically for anyone under 18. And their eatery like Micky Ds and there conpatriant don't offer a lot of healthy choices for cheap. Though I think over-eating or depression is a problem with the society. Surgery. This is the article I used in the opening of this Thread. http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/19/korea.beauty/index.html Well, maybe V-jaws aren't exactly a complete rarity in Asia, but it is far more common in most other places. As for the nose thing, Asian's usually have low noses with open nostrils. White people have longer noses but their nostrils aren't usually as open. So when Asians change their noses through surgery they lengthen it, and close the nostrils a bit. It's not as popular as the double eye-lids but it's still common. Yeah, there's definitetly a following for the Jersey Look, but I think most people think it's ridiculous. Also, this shouldn't even be considered a majority, isn't us hating it enough of a reason for it to never be the majority? I mean, if I were in Korea right now I'd probably think surgery on girls is so hot. Not for my own measure, just because what society would have fed me. Hair. I'm aware that sunlight can bleach hair, but I don't think it can bleach it that light. I have black hair, and am in the hot sun a lot but my hair never got to the point where it was as light as the Koreans I know. I think bleach brown is really to light to be considered brown. And if this were the case, I would assume that all Asians have brown hair like the Koreans, but that isn't the case. It just seems so natural there. When you see ⅝ of your idols with that hair color, it would make many people want to dye it the same. I'm not exactly saying all of them are doing it to mimick whites, I was just pointing out that a massive percent of them have that color. I don't think straightening/curling is an influence most of the time. Seeing as some women curl their hair to make it easier to manage or straighten it sometimes just to try it. This just seems too natural to me to be considered a influence. LOL at the Austrailians having that much blonde hair. The thing is, in America, beauty is far more subjective than it is in Asia. In America, you'll see actresses that all look different that are considered beautiful in there own way. Megan Fox, Taylor Swift, Jessica Alba, Angolena Jolie ect. While in Korea, their definition of beauty seems very definitive. You'll see a group of Korean girls, and about half of them have the exact same style. Same hair, eyes ect. Which makes me think they're trying to look like something. Influence. Apple is only sued by Samsung in Korea, where Samsung has a larger presence and it's easier for them to take legal matters. Apple on the other hand has sued Samsung three times, twice in America and once in Europe. I wasn't trying to be bleak in that post, I could have added a lot of other things, like how Koreans use Youtube to upload there videos, (Like Gagnam style) USA websites are very popular in Korea, e.g Facebook, Twitter, ect, more than there own sites and how they seem to enjoy MMOs a lot. Hell, I could've said they love computers and the internet in general, but I don't think that is fair to the premise of this debate. I Said smartphones, something that was solely popularized by the Iphone, but now is being dominated by Samsung. 2. As for the cellphone thing, this kinda helps my argument in a way. Seeing as all these things were made in America and have become more popular in other parts of the world and other countries are now the top producers of these such products. Though I disagree on Japanese popularizing cellphones. This isn't the same case as with Video games, Americans already had a growing market in celluar tech before it even reached there. So yeah I agree that Asia has helped popularize and even make the best types of these products. 3. Jpop, is different, but Kpop is pretty similar. Look at the links I added above. 4. While 200 doesn't seem like a lot, Korea is a country smaller than Tennessee that is very over-crowded. and I think that is a good amount for one brand. I don't deny that Chinese food is in full boom, but where I live (Mississippi), I've never seen a Japanese or Korean restaurant, I've been to New York before, and I didn't see any there either. 5. Your argument for the last thing really helps my case I think. You see Nintendo dominates everywhere and is the number-one video game maker, followed by Sony, something that was invented in America. I want to point out one thing, that Nintendo's mascot, Mario was influenced by American Cartoons, same for Sonic. The only thing I can entirely agree with you on is the food thing. And honestly, I don't see how it's not as big as I think when McDonald is still the most popular food chain. Hell, there's like 2,000 of those things in Japan. Samsung and Sony are the number one electronic makers, but most of the stuff they make aren't originals and they usually originated in America. Asia may make the products, which I think has more to do with economy. Asians will sell cars for a hell of a lot less, because the cost of labor in places like china, is extremely low. Also you act as if the tanned look is the majority. It isn't. Finally, I'm gonna point out that a lot of things that even Asians made or 'invented' was by inspiration from an existing American idea. Anime was influenced off cartoons and the original creator said he wanted to make the characters eyes big like westerners. This is a bit of a disputable quote so I'll leave that at that. America's influence is still the biggest in the world. And I think it'll take a while before it becomes second. Especially in terms of entertainment. e.g, Movies, Singers, characters (Look at Mickey Mouse's fame in Asia) not so much in Video games, but that varies a lot depending on the country. This is completely understandable for someplace like South Korea, where as that Republic was founded by partial American Ideals and a lot of US army men lived and still do live there. But not somewhere like Europe or Japan. I can't understand that. Yeah, I know, I wish I could write something this long as a school project but that isn't the case...