Hypocrisy on vgchartz. Gameplay is not a subjective topic but Presentation is.

[Jay520]

happydolphin said:

Jay520 said:

You don't know how arguments work. When you make a point, you have to support it. You can't just refuse to support your point because it challenges the norm. I didn't say gameplay was objective so I dont have to prove that.

The figure skating analogy is a bad one. Because it assumes one skater lacks the skill necessary to express what he/she wants to. The figure has a goal, but lacks the skill to accomplish it - this would be a sign of low quality. But this doesn't necessarily apply to NSMB. When concerning NSMB, you don't know if Nintendo is achieving their goal.

Video game presentation should be more compared to other visual mediums anyway, rather than choreography. Things like painting or drawing can be seen as art more similar to presentation in video games. And in those cases, quality is almost purely subjective. What one may detest, another may love. Choreography on the other hand is very different because the physical ability required is almost always too high for most people, so of course its easy to spot low quality work. When it comes visual mediums, people are free to let their imagination run free with little to no restrictions.

It is the same thing, only another skill. What you said in bold very much applies in the same way to a graphical artist. I personally believe that the teams in charge of NSMB at the moment are B teams, and I have industry and game playing reasons to believe that.

Also, I doubted whether Nintendo had an artistic goal or not to begin with (my questions were "was it intentional or was it based on a business direction?").

And yes, the fundamental point I was making was that there was hypocrisy between how gameplay and presentation are being handled when it comes to what is objective and what is subjective. Unless people have a reason to do that, I challenge the status quo without burden of proof. I know how to argue.

its not the same. Physical ability is such a huge restriction that most people cannot use choreography to express themselves. But with visual mediums, no such restrictions exist, at least not as strong. If a person uses paint, graphic design, etc to express something, its much more likely that they weren't restricted by any inherent lacking in skill and let their imagination control the canvas, unlike choreography. If they do produce something, its much more likely to be their goal. If they achieved their goal and especially if a number of people enjoyed the end product, then who are you to say it was low quality? You're just shoving your opinion down other people's throat.

I'm not arguing your fundamental point because it looks like a misuse of the word hypocrisy. I'm arguing something you said later on, when you implied art was objective.