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fordy on 02 March 2013
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Scoobes said:
fordy said:
Scoobes said:
fordy said:
Scoobes said:
fordy said:
Scoobes said:

Err... you know this is a forum right? He's supposed to respond and debate, especially if he disagree with the OP assessment.

Except he's arguing against subjective, opinionated matter, which only makes HIM look like the fool, not the OP.

 

I'll say it agan, there's several reasons why people buy Nintendo consoles, and "3rd party support" is not one of them.

That's not the way I interpreted his comments. He took exception to the fact that the OP claims Nintendo fans have better taste than other gamers. He disagreed but fell short of making the opposite, subjective claim.


Oh no! How dare he think like that with his subjective opinion! This calls for a public lynching!

I'll put it this way. Do you disagree to the fact that 3rd parties have dumped shovelware on Nintendo consoles in the past?

Not sure what relevance that has to do with the point people are making. No one's lynching him either, it's a debate. People disagree, give their viewpoint on his post and he has the opportunity to respond. If it's all within the rules then there's no problems as far as I can see.

Before I answer your question, how do you define shovelware? Some of the games people define as shovelware have actually sold fairly well. 

That's actually a good point, and one of the reasons why I believe third parties treat Nintendo users in such a way. 

For instance, a company releases a game that was probably cheap to develop, and releases it to pretty big sales. Other third parties see this and think "$", so attempt to emulate the same thing. However, all it does is give them a bad reputation on the console, and future releases by said publisher are generally questioned by purchasers.

Not all games that were made on the cheap can be big hits, some just got lucky and hit what the market was looking for at the time. However if some 3rd parties attempt to follow suit and don't get the same sales, they should not be blaming the consumer. They read the market completely wrong.

Good points, but I don't think budget and quality neccessarily correlate. There are plenty of big budget games that fail due to a multitude of reasons, such as competition for instance. I agree that the publishers probably did read the market wrong when they released a large number of cheaper titles in the same genres as the more sucessful titles. There's only so much room in the market before you reach saturation point and the average titles fall by the wayside.

This happened on the HD consoles as well. Take Homefront (or any other average FPS on the HD consoles) for instance, an average FPS with a massive budget released on consoles that already had a plethora of FPS franchises.

I see the shovelware label gets used a lot, but I think a lot of people discount entire genres for the sole reason they're not core genres. Some third party titles did succeed, they're just in different genres as publishers tried to make the most profit out of the Wii market. Take Just Dance for instance, at its height the franchise was nearing 10 million each for Just Dance 2 & 3. I don't play dance games so I can't comment on quality, but for any franchise (1st or 3rd party) that's a tremendous success.

Of course, the Wii itself was in an odd position. It was underpowered but more importantly, used older chip architectures meaning third parties couldn't do simple ports of core titles as readily as with 360, PS3 and PC. Going into next gen, the Wii U may well be underpowered compared to the next gen PS4/720, but it has a modern architecture and modern engines are fairly scalable. We should see far more core multiplats next gen and it'll be interesting to see how the sales play out if that is the case.


You're right, budget and quaity aren't directly relative. However, if any game company knew they could make a multi-million seller for little development cost, I'm sure they all would. Money is the driving factor for all publishers out there. Sequels dont come just because the fans want it; sequels come if the original sold enough to warrant a sequel. Take a look at Skies of Arcadia for example. Beautiful game, one that anyone could tell had a lot of time spent on it polishing the finer details in. However, despite overhwlming demand, there's still no sequel. 

This coming gen will be interesting, because I remember Square-Enix touting that their new Light engine was made for scalability across platforms, meaning if we don't see an equal share of SE games across all 3 nextgen platforms, then SE was either full of shit, or there were other factos at play (such as other platforms paying to have a game on their system).