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Kasz216 on 28 February 2013
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MoleMolinski said:
Kasz216 said:
MoleMolinski said:
Kasz216 said:

32-14 in the Senate as far as Democrats go.   118 to 65 in the house.

DOMA was officially endorsed in the republican party platform in 1996, written and presented onto the house floor by republican senators, and would have passed whether or not the dems voted yay/ney/absent. EVERY republican in the senate voted for it, every republican but 1 voted for it in the house. The point is that it was "god bless america" circa 1996, and although I get your point that SOME dems made the wrong decision, it stand that the entire legislative process for that unconstitutional bill was ushered through by republicans.

 

Clinton couldn't stop it, dems couldnt stop it. Sadly some dems went along with it. Some dems who voted for it are still in power, but they are against it this time around. So at this point it's ancient history. Times have changed. But the redneck comment stands, unless you can prove another way for the bill to have sunk in the senate/house when every republican voted for it lol. Im sure they have a wiki page, have at it...


A) Replace some with LARGE MAJORITY.

B) If Democrats didn't support Doma by a LARGE MAJORITY they  could of eaisly phillibustered it or killed it by ammenemtend additions.

C) Clinton didn't want to stop it.  He didn't support gay marriage until around the Obama Presidency.  Being anti-gay marriage during his presidency and during the bush years.  He changes his opinion... right around the tipping point for gay marriage... just "coincidentally."

 

D) Clinton COULD have stopped it... Had he and a LARGE MAJORITY of democrats not supported it.  It's called a presidential veto.  Republicans didn't have a 2/3rds majority to override.

 

Times have changed, but your missing my point.  Which is, times have only changed because average peoples positions have changed.


If Gay marriage opinion polls now looked like they did in 1998... a Majority of Democrats would be voting for more homophobic laws.

The shift is completley oppurtunistic.

 

To blame DOMA on republcians is like saying a hate crime is completely the other guys fault because he was kicking a little harder.


Uhhh Kaz, this is where POLITICS comes in lol. Welcome to the real world of bullshit, not sunshine land of good guy vs bad guy.

This was 1996, the republican revolution had taken place 2 years before. The Christian Coalition had a strangle hold on politics at the time. the WHITE CHRISTIAN MAJORITY was spreading their bullshit through republican talk radio. You think the bluedog democrats or ANY dem would have stood up against the WHITE MAJORITY VOTING BLOCK of 1996 and dared to lose their job in the process lol. You gotta be smokin something... It wasn't right for them to put their political career before human rights, but that's the bitter reality of poliitics.

EVERY REPUBLICAN IN THE HOUSE AND SENATE, excluding 1 GAY republican in the house, voted for it lol. EVERY ONE. The "filibuster" wasn't going to be used, are you kidding me? Have you seen the voting statistics for 1996? You think the Obama coalition existed... Dude, come on. BLUEDOG DEMOCRATS were going to vote AGAINST DOMA? You understand that democrats aren't all cut from the same cloth, they aren't all from California or New York? You get that right. Bluedogs are from the bumfuck south and bumfuck midwest, where politics are a little bit different than the liberacoast, now AND especially in 1996.

 

Google "blue dogs." That should awaken you to the reality of the democratic party in the midwest and south. The democratic party historically has never been able to get their troops together and vote like the republicans do. That's why you're wrong lol.

I'm wondering... how old are you?

How active were you in supporting gay rights during that time?

It had NOTHING to do with White voting rights, or a christian coalition or any of the bullshit offloading talking points your trying to use to deflect blame.

People were just against gay marriage.  I know, because I was for gay marriage, I had those talks with people over and over again until i wanted to put my head through a wall.  There were plenty of Democrats against gay marraige.   Plenty of atheists against gay marriage and plenty of non-whites against gay marriage.   In fact, when it comes to gay marriage African Americans opposed gay marriage the most... and still do.   Some analysts think the whole reason Prop 8 passed in California was because of the extra black turnout due to Obama.

So spare me the bullshit.  It wasn't a matter of poltiical calculations.  Most politicians were just like the average population then.  Against gay marriage.

Most of those same politcians are still in power... and likely still against gay marraige, only changing their minds for politcial reasons, because they're old ass dudes who are of a generation that's still overwhelmingly against gay marriage.

 

This is why you NEVER see any movement on gay marriage fronts.  Gay rights issues NEVER get brought up.  The only time you ever see a gay rights bill (or women's rights for that matter) is right before an election when it getting shut down gives a voting boost.


It's the same people who were against it before, and are still against it, but by claiming to be for it, and doing nothing they can reap political benefits.

 

Hence why real progress won't be made unless

A) Legislated by the courts,

B) People stop giving those assholes a pass and push for change.

C) The Otherside just gives up on the issue too sick of giving the other party a freebie.

 

B is the only one that's controllable.