FF7 - Is it just me...

[Borkachev]

1. I accept that shot looks like he gets stabbed in the shoulder. Blame the ps1 for this. From 1 second beyond this point, it's painfully clear that he is stabbed in the stomach. You posting that as your argument is making you seem like you work for fox news. Fail. I was apologize if they remake it, and Cloud Clearly is stabbed through the shoulder, but grabbing his stomach to swing Sephiroth kinda tells me it wasn't his shoulder.

As you said, blame the PS1. I'd always assumed he was stabbed through the shoulder, now I'm not completely sure. This is the one thing you've made me wonder at in this thread. But like I said, it's an awfully minor issue. It's a question of where precisely, in a measure of inches, a stab wound happened. Does the story hold together or fall apart based on that location? Would it even matter if there had been no sword at all, and Sephiroth had just lifted him up by the scruff of his shirt? No. So who gives a shit?

Also, the game shot itself in the foot for this. Making one quick stab wound so fatal to a technically demi godand another, to a charecter referred to as pathetic, weak, who takes a blade, gets lifted by it (Hmm... that's gentle), and then throws the extremely powerful charecter who stabbed him like he was a god damn pillow... makes you wonder... WTF. Consistancy for the win!

Maybe I didn't make this clear enough. Cloud was never physically weak. He was a tough kid with low self-esteem and a poor sense of self. It was in this sense that he was "weak," and it was this that kept him out of SOLDIER -- only the mentally strong could withstand the Mako treatments.

2. The healing effects of mako poisoning. Gotcha. Consitancy for the win!

Mako poisoning isn't a physical poison like arsenic. It's concentrated knowledge and "spirit energy," and the "poisoning" effect is the mind's reaction to overexposure to these things. There's no indication that it's harmful to the body; it just drives you insane.

In any case, I was just throwing that out as a possibility. The point is that you can't make wild assumptions about the state of medicine in a world full of magic and bizarre technology. The life-saving properties of Jenova cells, at least, are hinted at in the story through Vincent and Lucretia.

And could you please try to be a little less obnoxious with your replies?

3. You think you think... well, here's the thing. Cloud is nowhere near Sephiroth's level. This is explained over and over again how Sephiroth is a soldier beyond Human, that he is dangerous.

I think we've been over this. "Beyond human" doesn't mean he's invincible. That an exceptionally strong human could overpower him once under extraordinary circumstances doesn't seem particularly far-fetched to me. Sephiroth wasn't a god.

And it's not just what I "think." When I venture to make a guess like that, it's because it's got compelling evidence behind it. In this case, we're prepared for the possibility of Cloud being stronger than Sephiroth throughout the game as a buildup to the final battle, where Cloud expels the last of him from his mind.

4. To prove your point you show me a video of them escaping. Well done. I wanted to see them getting captured, or that getting mentioned. That was a fail. I'm not doubting they escaped, although I don't see why Hojo wants to inject the other guy with cells again, but...

So you can accept that they escape, but you refuse to believe they were captured in the first place? What exactly were they escaping from? Come on. You're not this dense.

I told you that this stuff is explained elsewhere in the game. I don't particularly want to go digging through the game script to find it. Even without the direct quotes, even a retarded chimp could piece this together. Hojo tells Cloud he was part of the Jenova project. Sephiroth explains what Hojo did to him. We see the place where the experiments took place. Everyone in Nibelheim at the time of the Sephiroth incident was also part of the project, except Tifa, who was rescued immediately after. In the note he leaves, Zangan explains that he got her away just as Hojo and the Shinra soldiers were arriving. This quotation I actually did dig up for you: "As I was coming out of the reactor, Shinra troops were just arriving. I recall a scientist named Hojo was in charge. He ordered the troops to gather up everyone still alive for the experiment. I didn't know what type of experiment he was talking about, but I wasn't about to let them have my
dearest student."

Hmmm, I wonder if these things might be connected somehow.

If you really need it spelled out for you, this scene is depicted in the Last Order anime. I didn't want to bring it up because it's not canonical, but I guess some people don't believe things until they see it performed in front of them with bright lights and colors.

5. Just going by the story. He's their golden general, their boy, the soldier of amazing strength. Omnipotent, of course not. But he wasn't a regular guy. Even you argue this. Then against it. This isn't the stories fault, this is yours.

No, he wasn't a regular guy. He wasn't all-powerful, either. You're "just going by the story"? What part of the story, exactly?

6. Alien monster thingy that was held in containment. Alright, cool. This is where the rant against clones comes in. Nibelheim = clones. Pieces of Jenova = clones in illusion. Soldier members = clones (They have Jenova Cells).

So is it just the word "clones" you hate? If I call them fig-blossoms, would that make it alright? There are no clones in FFVII. Yes, they have Jenova cells. If you get a blood transfusion, does that make you a clone?

So you've got 3 fucking sets of Sephiroths, plus the original. It is only by accepting part 3 that the story makes any sense. (Sephiroth, while incased in ice with his "mother"s head, sends a clone (Worthless one? Nah. Had to be a soldier clone) to wipe out a heavily armed building that may or may not have the Turks in it. Was this clone worthless? What was this clone? Jenova was locked up and frozen at this point, the clone TOOK Jenova.

I explained this in a previous post. No clone broke into the Shinra building and took Jenova. Jenova itself came to life under the control of Sephiroth, broke out of its containment, and wiped out the building.

Sephiroth never controlled the members of SOLDIER. Why that is is never explicitly said, but it's implied that it's either because they weren't subjected to the same level of Jenova experimentation as the others, or, much more likely, because they possessed the "strength of mind" we were just talking about which Cloud and the other subjects lacked. Sephiroth could only manipulate the weak.

So, either there's 3 sets of god damn clones (I still admit I was wrong on the cloud clone part. Just because they kept calling him a clone and his memories false like a clone I suppose)

No, you were right on the Cloud clone part, you were just wrong about what a Sephiroth clone is. That's alright -- it was a long, long time before I figured it out. Cloud is just as much a Sephiroth clone as any of the numbered clones -- he just escaped before he got his tattoo.

Also, when Jenova WANTS to be united, why is it willingly cutting itself up (After the Shinra Building) to send to randomly attack things? It's not even going directly for it's goal that it knew of. It's just... going against both goals! Consistancy again!

Because obtaining the black materia was more urgent to Sephiroth. The reunion didn't matter until he had that.

7. Holy shit 2 guys cut up and bleedin and near death that tried to help our village! Oh no, my precious student! I'll bring her back and get HELP!

I refuse to believe you don't understand this. No, you're being deliberately dense.

You go into a burning building. There unconscious on the floor is your daughter and an anonymous fireman who tried to save her, and you can only carry one of them. Are you going to rescue the fireman? Fuck no.

Hojo: Oh, I knew Sephiroth was going to go crazy. I got their with my army long before anyone else decided to help the guys cut up by a 7 foot sword.

What exactly is the problem here? Who else would be first on the scene if not the Shinra army?

8. The power of illusion, the power of sound, the power to read a girl's mind and take someone elses MEMORY FROM IT. Gotcha.

Yes, you've got it. These are all powers of Jenova. If you have a problem with that, you must hate all this magic. "This is bullshit! Magic isn't real!"