FF7 - Is it just me...

[Fuzzmosis]

Borkachev said:

I dunno. To me, it looks pretty clearly like it's going through the right shoulder:

At worst, it's through the center of the chest, which isn't necessarily fatal given immediate medical treatment (which Cloud had)(1). The state of medicine in FFVII's world isn't explained all that well, but it seems quite advanced. The healing effects of Mako and Jenova's cells are hinted at as well. (2)

In any case, I think this is a pretty minor detail.

How exactly Cloud overpowered Sephiroth when everyone else failed is up for some debate. I tend to think this scene is telling us that Sephiroth was never the all-powerful god figure he was made out to be. He was ultimately just a man. There's also some suggestion that Jenova cells don't precisely make a soldier "stronger," but just enable him to resist death, as Lucretia says. (Obviously this ties back to how Cloud survived his stab wound if it really was to his chest and how Sephiroth survived his fall). Finally, you should look to the underlying meaning of the scene, which is that Cloud did have an immense inner strength after all, despite how weak he felt--it just wasn't the kind of strength that would get him into SOLDIER. It's an extremely powerful scene in any case.

Oh, and if you really want to get practical about it, keep in mind that Sephiroth had just been stabbed through the back with a foot-wide blade, something that would have already killed anyone else. Obviously he was weakened.(3)

I... don't really follow you here. Is it that you don't believe Hojo came and picked up Cloud and the others from the reactor? Then it sounds like you missed this optional scene(4) which covers some of those events. The remaining missing events are explained through dialogue with Hojo and from the documents you can read in various places: just after Sephiroth fell into the reactor, Hojo and some Shinra soldiers arrived at the scene. They rounded up all the survivors and enlisted them into the Jenova project. They then rebuilt the town to cover up what had happened. The Nibelheim survivors were injected with Jenova cells and tattooed, and became the "Sephiroth clones." (Again, they weren't literally clones of him).

I don't know why you figure he's all-powerful. In person, Sephiroth doesn't really do anything all that amazing. Are you thinking of the final battle and all the crazy galaxy-destroying shit he does? Most of that didn't actually happen.(5)

"The ability to change one's looks, voice, and words, is the power of Jenova."

Sephiroth, being half-Jenova, possesses that power of illusion. The ridiculously over-the-top events of the final battle are a strong hint about that.

Or if you're thinking of when he was flying around killing people on the cargo ship and elsewhere, remember that that wasn't Sephiroth himself. It was the various body parts of Jenova, which, largely as a result of his trip through the lifestream and the knowledge it gave him, Sephiroth had gained the power to control. Jenova had a lot of strange powers, but there's nothing too surprising about that. She was an alien monster-thingy.(6)

No, those weren't physical/look-alike clones either. As I said above, the people in the black capes were the citizens of Nibelheim, twisted by the Jenova project. Sephiroth could control them to a certain extent (just as he controlled Cloud) because they had Jenova cells in their bodies. But the "Sephiroths" who were actually running around in his form massacring things were Jenova body parts manipulated to resemble Sephiroth, not the "clones." The "clones" didn't do much more than stagger around moaning on their way to the northern crater, and poke around for the black materia a bit.

As for why they were cut up when they reached the crater, it was to complete the "Jenova Reunion." They had to be killed so that Sephiroth could retrieve the Jenova cells within them and reconstruct his body.

I don't see your problem with this. If whatshisname-the-martial-arts-guy could only carry out one person, why is it hard to believe he would choose his dearest student? And Hojo didn't ignore Tifa -- she was rescued before he got there. (7)

It wasn't a coincidence that he was kidnapped. Shinra had to round up and silence every witness to cover up what Sephiroth (and they) had done, and putting them in the Jenova project was the obvious thing to do.

And the treatment did make Cloud worthless and immobile -- that's what the scene you mentioned of him "dying in Midgar" was all about. He wasn't dying -- he was suffering from severe Mako poisoning and disorientation as a result of what happened to him. He recovered because Tifa found him and he was able to latch onto her memory and the memory of Zack, and reconstruct a personality for himself. But the new personality was unstable and full of holes, which is why he was so screwed up for most of the game.(8)

FFVII's story is remarkably well put-together and internally consistent. I'm more impressed with it every time I look at it. (9)

As I am against enormous quotes (Unlike some people here), I've edited the above quotes to only contain your comments (And bolded them because bold is pretty). Allow me to start at the top: (I numbered)

1. I accept that shot looks like he gets stabbed in the shoulder. Blame the ps1 for this. From 1 second beyond this point, it's painfully clear that he is stabbed in the stomach. You posting that as your argument is making you seem like you work for fox news. Fail. I was apologize if they remake it, and Cloud Clearly is stabbed through the shoulder, but grabbing his stomach to swing Sephiroth kinda tells me it wasn't his shoulder.

Also, the game shot itself in the foot for this. Making one quick stab wound so fatal to a technically demi godand another, to a charecter referred to as pathetic, weak, who takes a blade, gets lifted by it (Hmm... that's gentle), and then throws the extremely powerful charecter who stabbed him like he was a god damn pillow... makes you wonder... WTF. Consistancy for the win!

2. The healing effects of mako poisoning. Gotcha. Consitancy for the win!

3. You think you think... well, here's the thing. Cloud is nowhere near Sephiroth's level. This is explained over and over again how Sephiroth is a soldier beyond Human, that he is dangerous. Cloud is so weak he can't even get into Soldier. You think isn't what the god damn story tells you. Oh, and Sephiroth gets stabbed in the back, and then still single handedly lifts a human with the flick of his wrist? I think he was okay. Consistancy for the win!

4. To prove your point you show me a video of them escaping. Well done. I wanted to see them getting captured, or that getting mentioned. That was a fail. I'm not doubting they escaped, although I don't see why Hojo wants to inject the other guy with cells again, but...

5. Just going by the story. He's their golden general, their boy, the soldier of amazing strength. Omnipotent, of course not. But he wasn't a regular guy. Even you argue this. Then against it. This isn't the stories fault, this is yours.

6. Alien monster thingy that was held in containment. Alright, cool. This is where the rant against clones comes in. Nibelheim = clones. Pieces of Jenova = clones in illusion. Soldier members = clones (They have Jenova Cells). So you've got 3 fucking sets of Sephiroths, plus the original. It is only by accepting part 3 that the story makes any sense. (Sephiroth, while incased in ice with his "mother"s head, sends a clone (Worthless one? Nah. Had to be a soldier clone) to wipe out a heavily armed building that may or may not have the Turks in it. Was this clone worthless? What was this clone? Jenova was locked up and frozen at this point, the clone TOOK Jenova. So, either there's 3 sets of god damn clones (I still admit I was wrong on the cloud clone part. Just because they kept calling him a clone and his memories false like a clone I suppose) which is way over the top, or the story fails at conistancy again. Neither are unexpected. This also covers the clones. Also, when Jenova WANTS to be united, why is it willingly cutting itself up (After the Shinra Building) to send to randomly attack things? It's not even going directly for it's goal that it knew of. It's just... going against both goals! Consistancy again!

7. Holy shit 2 guys cut up and bleedin and near death that tried to help our village! Oh no, my precious student! I'll bring her back and get HELP! Hojo: Oh, I knew Sephiroth was going to go crazy. I got their with my army long before anyone else decided to help the guys cut up by a 7 foot sword.

8. The power of illusion, the power of sound, the power to read a girl's mind and take someone elses MEMORY FROM IT. Gotcha.

9. From other posts in this thread, it's clear you are an english major. When you read between the lines, you are only reading what your mind has written. Unfortunately, this means that in your mind, in all things literature, you are omniscient. I feel that an eye for an eye is appropriate after your initial response. And, yes, minus what you've had me bring up, it's extremely consistant. I still hate the fucking clones (3 sets?) (But I accept Cloud, though mostly nonsensical, and called a clone, was not actually a clone. Just a stupid average person)

If you reply, I'll have my rebuttle up in a day or two! Tis fun. I always liked English majors, particularily when they laugh out and just accepted they were bullshitting because that's how they get a degree. And hey, I'm not an english major. Minus 1, which you took a single frame whereas I show a video, I'm sure there are counter arguments to this. Even if you're contradicting the story. Like saying "Soldiers weren't super soldiers" when the story says they were.

All hate and bile towards the Cloud and Sephiroth portion of this story!