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Kasz216 on 07 February 2013
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HesAPooka said:
Kasz216 said:
HesAPooka said:
brendude13 said:
Kasz216 said:
brendude13 said:

Those statistics don't seem right at all. Austria, New Zealand and Canada are considered some of the safest countries on the planet.

Don't know what to tell you... outside the fact that they are the only numbers you can find and are widely cited... over a number of years

Assuming you meant Australia instead of Austria.... and Australia is notorious for how easy it is to get into a bar fight.

 

Here's another one... with the UK sadly moving up the list.  Canada moving down.  Australia and New Zealand are off this one.  Though the US isn't on there either.

 

No, I meant Austria, it's highest on the first chart you posted. I don't know what to say about this one either. Sweden in 4th!?

Maybe it's something to do with the country's definition of a violent crime, or how it is reported?


Sweden and other nordic countries have high instances of rape, but the issue here is gun related homicides. Not bar fights etc.iolent crime rates in general are in fact applicable... far more then gun homicides.

Violent crime rates are far more applicable then gun related homicides.

Afterall, gun related homicide vs non-gun related homicide?  What's the point int splitting them up?  You can't kill somone with a gun you'll kill them another way.

 

However, a supressing effect guns have on other violent crimes?   Pretty applicable i'd say.

Glad you said that cause US ranks higher in homicides amongs devloped countires, AND gun related homicides :). So clearly guns aren't stopping homicides in the states. SInce it ranks highest in both gun related and non gun related homicides per capita amongst delevloped countries. Sure other countries rank high in rape or other violent form of crimes, but that's a whole other issue.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#By_country

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

Either way I'm done replying. No offense to you or anything, but I added my two cents. I wan't looking to argue or anything (not implying you are). Pretty clear stats on the homicide rates with and without guns for US. If you want to keep your guns than keep your guns, but don't come up with bugus stats to make excuses to do so. I'd rather hear hey I want to keep my gun because the risks don't outweight the benefits for me, and sure more people will die, but I like the freedom of having my gun. Just don't try to hide behind backwards stats or start twisting the issue.


Well of course guns aren't stopping Homicides in the US.  Once you get to the stage where you want to murder somebody, you are going to murder somebody regardless.  The US has a number of factors that make it inherently more violent then most OECD countries.  Poverty, education issues, racial minorities who often feel they can't trust the police, and are often right.  Yet our violent crime rate is lower.  I'll note once again that for white people.  The US homicde rate is right in line with europe.  Therefore the causes of our high homicide rate are logically caused by issues that effect these groups heavier then whites.  These people more likely to comit murders including gun homicides are LESS likely to own guns.

As for bogus stats... they aren't bogus.  Actually if you look historically at homicide rates.  You'll note homicdes go UP after gun bans.  Not down. 

For a very mild example.

You can't tie that to one piece of legislation,  nor would I, but the opposite happens from what you think would be the case.

http://scienceblogs.com/builtonfacts/2013/01/28/gun-control-debate-with-mark-pt-2/   (Has some good stuff on it as well).

Why?  Because it doesn't matter.  Nobody looks at a gun and says "Hey a gun, i'm gonna shoot someone!"   People think... "Man i'd like to kill that guy.  I'll shoot him"  or if there is no gun "I'll stab him" or "I'll poison him."

If we got rid of guns in the US.  Homicdes would not go down.  Crime would go up.  

If you remove the US a statistical outlier... you actually find homicides go down as gun ownership goes up in OECD nations.

 

I wouldn't be looking for an arguement either if my viewpoint held no statistical or logical point... to quote the above link.

"In short, there is no good evidence that gun availability causes increased crime rates. There is extremely good evidence that socioeconomic variables are far and away the primary drivers of crime rates. Violence in general and gun violence in particular are real problems in the US, but gun control as a solution is so ill-supported as to verge on superstition."