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Roma said:

as I said there is a design that can't exist without a designer just like a bunch of numbers can't form gravity in a computer game without guidance

which leads to a creator that was not created as if he was created then that creator has a creator and so on thus we would not exist.

if a person has to be granted permission to shoot a guy and that person has to get permission to give permission and so on then the guy would never be shot

Thx you for acknowledging this.

So in end we go back to either - every design needs a designer and as such even a creator needs a designer or creator doesn't need a designer and as such every design doesn't need a designer hence universes doesn't need a desiner.

Your analogy doesn't make sence. Guidance = computer program = something we can see, understand, describe, quantify. Guidence = God = ??????