Aielyn said:
First, I'd like you to provide a single quote where he suggested that being gay is a choice. Note, by the way, the difference between "being gay" and "having homosexual relations". To many religions, homosexual relations are sins, but "being gay" isn't about the act, but about your feelings. So, provide the quote. Second, it's rather ironic that you should talk about other people being ignorant towards their bigotry. You accuse killerzX of bigotry, but you show all of the signs of bigotry against religious people. killerzX has been polite, respectful, and honest, and you've done nothing but attack and demean. Stop and think about it for a bit. And you and I feel that guarantees cannot come from faith. But those with faith see it differently. You have to understand this - faith to them is like logic to us, it's the cornerstone of their worldview. By its very definition, faith is the absolute belief that something is true or will happen. killerzX has faith that his children won't be gay - he sees it as an absolute, as something guaranteed. Kind of like how you would see the sun rising tomorrow as "guaranteed". It is theoretically conceivable that something will prevent the sun from "rising" tomorrow (from our perspective, that is), but you still take the existence of a tomorrow as something guaranteed. Faith works in much the same way, and while we may disagree with what they have faith in, or the value of faith, that doesn't make it any less legitimate in the formation of a worldview. |
Done and done:
| killerzX said:
what if he doesnt believe people are born gay? I know with absolute certainty that when i have children, they wont be gay.
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| killerzX said: i dont believe people are born gay. i will not have a gay child I can ensure that. |
Now I can see what you're going to say already, and if you bring up the whole "environment" thing, then you're only making the argument for choice. For example, there are many known cases of rich people coming from poor families. Despite being raised in a poor environment, they don't turn out the same way. There are many people who don't believe in the same faith that they were raised with.
Don't start this technicality bullshit about gay being a thought, because if being gay came to thoughts about such, then EVERYONE WOULD BE GAY. You know exactly what was meant, and don't try to deny it.
Nice try with the reverse bigotry, but I could say (for example, if you hated Nazism and their beliefs on genocide) that you're a bigot too. The difference is, my intolerance comes from bigotry expressed by the religious fanatics, which is, in essence, an attack on bigotry, not bigotry itself. When someone crosses the line and begins to hurt others with their opinions, resisting said opinions is not bigotry. Unless, of course, you can tell me HOW gay people are hurting religion to make them retaliate in such a way?
Oh and by the way, I wouldn't call "piss off" being polite, respectful or honest. Either your sense of politeness is out of whack, or you're looking at this argument with rose-tinted glasses.
Okay, now you're being as silly as killerX. It's one thing to come on here and be ignorant to logic and then whinge when people argue his points like he did, but it's a completely different matter to say "It's okay. His logic is based on faith" and expect it to hold water, and quite frankly, if you're using that as justification to his argument, then I'm seriously starting to question YOUR logic.
This is a forum. If you come on here and say stupid things that you can't back up by logic, you should expect them to be questioned. Faith WANTS the opposite (ie. express views but cannot be questioned), but cannot have it. My advice? If you cannot stand questioning of your faith, then keep it to yourself.
