If you are against gay marriage, explain why without mentioning religion

[Mr Khan]

Aielyn said:

fordy said:
I know exactly what he's saying. The basis of saying that being gay is a choice is one that conservatives push a lot, so they're able to say "Well they brought it on themselves to be ridiculed. They CHOSE to be that way". That was the point I was getting to in the above post. Why WOULD people willingly choose such a lifestyle of ridicule aimed towards them?

Once again, people can be bigots and be ignorant towards it. It comes by their actions more than their words. Anyone can say that they love everybody.

Oh, and a guarantee cannot come from faith. That's why it comes from logic and not faith. He said in another post it was a guarantee.

First, I'd like you to provide a single quote where he suggested that being gay is a choice. Note, by the way, the difference between "being gay" and "having homosexual relations". To many religions, homosexual relations are sins, but "being gay" isn't about the act, but about your feelings. So, provide the quote.

Second, it's rather ironic that you should talk about other people being ignorant towards their bigotry. You accuse killerzX of bigotry, but you show all of the signs of bigotry against religious people. killerzX has been polite, respectful, and honest, and you've done nothing but attack and demean. Stop and think about it for a bit.

And you and I feel that guarantees cannot come from faith. But those with faith see it differently. You have to understand this - faith to them is like logic to us, it's the cornerstone of their worldview. By its very definition, faith is the absolute belief that something is true or will happen. killerzX has faith that his children won't be gay - he sees it as an absolute, as something guaranteed. Kind of like how you would see the sun rising tomorrow as "guaranteed". It is theoretically conceivable that something will prevent the sun from "rising" tomorrow (from our perspective, that is), but you still take the existence of a tomorrow as something guaranteed. Faith works in much the same way, and while we may disagree with what they have faith in, or the value of faith, that doesn't make it any less legitimate in the formation of a worldview.

I don't think either of them have crossed the line, yet. Which is why i've ignored the stream of reports coming from the two of them against one another.

I would advise that both stop before moderation kicks in, however.