Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
If thousands of sceintists created this world, i'd say they were all "gods" with the head god being the head of the project. Kinda like [Poly]theism.
If this is a computer simulation, the religions may be for naught... or the researchers... or even some bored 17 year old who uses this world as Sim God and could answer peoples prayers, or cause them torment. Much how one of us might intentionally cause a tornado to our Sim City town.
This unvierse might be someones cell phone game for all we know. Or a RTS game where everyone created their own religion and now they're trying to see who wins. Who knows.
That's really unimportant.
Heck we could be a cellphone game, of a virtual person who is part of a universe that's a hand held game, that's a cellphone game or a reality thats an MMORPG.
Who knows. Even if another fake virtual person created this universe. I'd think he would in fact be god. |
I don't think your example makes sense. Etiher you look at it from our perspective -- in which case you have said they are supernatural -- or you look at it from their perspective -- in which case they are ordinary people, not gods.
The point is that I would say that the definition of a "god" includes not being held to the same natural laws that we mortals are subject to, which is by definition supernatural. How does your definition differ? |
Really I just don't get your point that if our world was a comuter program that created that person wouldn't be supernatural. They would be supernatural to us... but not to them. If got exists... i'd guess he wouldn't be supernatural to himself... and would know how he does what he does. I don't see how this is any different. In other words God is supernatural to us. But I wouldn't say he was inherently supernatural. Supernatural is basically just a word we use for "something we don't have a firm grip on." Were someone to prove that god created everything and be able to show how he did it. Through say... a Math problem or some expierement. God really wouldn't be supernatural anymore. Though how one would prove this is the real trick, since it would likely take a level of complexity that we don't have because we can't see out of the program so to speak. Or out of the dimension. Which is the problem we have of time vs "real time" |
That's exactly what I said.
What I meant was that in terms of OUR UNIVERSE they would be supernatural. And if they're supernatural to our universe but natural in some other universe ... well, they're still supernatural in the universe they're gods of. They're not gods in any universe where they don't have supernatural powers. WE AGREE ON THIS according to your own example. So I think that the argument that they can be gods and yet not supernatural is just sophistry.
supernatural
1: of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe; especially : of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil
2 a: departing from what is usual or normal especially so as to appear to transcend the laws of nature b: attributed to an invisible agent (as a ghost or spirit)
So the word actually is a PERFECT match for my contentions, namely that it (1) refers specifically to godlike properties; (2) refers to beings or forces operating beyond the constraints of natural law.
Even if we could prove the existence of a God or Gods, if they can still create or destroy matter, simultaneously know the exact location and trajectory of a particle, etc. etc. they can still obviously be supernatural. |
But Tombi is suggesting that if they are natural in their own world they can't be god. My point is that it doesn't matter if they are supernatural in their own world.
My point is that god does not have to be "universally" supernatural. Which is a bad word for it
since he would be supernatural in our universe. But you get my meaning. If he created are universe (a supernatural act in of itself) then he is god.
If got defys the laws of our world by keystroke. It's no different then if he does by pointing and saying alakazam.
