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Kasz216 on 11 February 2008
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Andir said:
appolose said:
Andir said:

If it isn't an ultimatum, what is it? You either are, or you aren't. That's pretty binary. If you aren't, you shall be denied something.

Saying that he is all powerful isn't an answer to the question. What does his power have to do with humans telling each other he is all powerful? And why does he need humans to do this? Why gloat about all this power he has? To what end? To give or deny you love? How is that not an ultimatum?

It's quite literally Him saying "You can either chose to come to me, or, should you dislike me, should you not love me, I will leave you alone" And that alone-ness (Yes, hell) is what we have asked for. Its what we wanted. I'm not saying that, in theology, some people like existing in torment forever, I'm saying that would rather that than God. Bear in mind, I'm saying this is Christian theology, I'm not saying whether or not its true. According to it, we get what we want.

But I'm not getting what I want. I want proof, material and visible (with my own two eyes) proof that he exists before I will go out and believe such a tall tale. If God truly did want us to choose, why doesn't he give us the evidence we need to make such a decision? Why should I have to live a life of servitude to a set of rules made up by someone that will not show his face? How is that fair to us? If he did create us for the purpose of proving our "love" to him, to what end? Why would something create a species, require them to follow a set pattern of rules, require them to accept his existance, and not give those questioning the existance the solid (no questions asked) proof that they need? What's the point besides to play with us in twisted means?


What would be matieral and physical proof that god exists to you? Seriously, what could make you believe in god if he were standing right infront of you?

Wouldn't you agree with me like I said above, that any physical proof that god could give, could in fact could be the result any number of other things?

Aren't you basically asking for something you know isn't possible. Since anything physical could be made by something else, and therefore such proof would need to be not physical?  Such a thing would have to provoke a non physical expierence to make you believe.  

Basically said physical proof would have to be proven to be nothing else in existance... but the result of gods work. And people arn't anywhere near smart enough to do that. We can't even explain consiousness.

Honestly, in my book, until you can fully explain that, you can't really and fully explain anything.