This is why I don't like debating religion

[timmah]

Jay520 said:

timmah said:

Even if you have all of those characteristics on a planet, you still have to add up all of the probabilities that lead you to even a single cell of reproducing life, as well as the fact that, if it would take billions of years for that fragile, single cell to develop, there is zero chance that the climate and conditions of the planet stay stable enough for that entire time for this fragile, first life to develop over that massive amount of time.

It seems like the only proof for you is actually recreating life (which is strange because we don't usually say, "if we can't do it, then it's not possible" to every other scientific discover). That's fine, you have your own requirements for evidence I guess, though I wish you required the same evidence for your creator. That's part of the beauty of science. You don't have to believe it right now. Scientists don't even have to believe it. So they can still research it with no faith involved, to come to the most accurate conclusion possible.

I never said 'if we can't do it, it's not possible', that would be a logical fallacy. My point was that if we can't do it on purpose, it's highly improbable it would happen on its own. I would also say, if we can do it in the lab, that doesn't mean that's how it happened with 100% certainty. My broader point is that none of this is even close to concrete, there are multiple theories about how life could have sprung up out of the early oceans, and we've been able to synthesize certain components of life in the lab (but not prove how those parts could become a living whole on their own), but none of that proves or disproves that life came from non-life, just as none of it proves or dis-proves the existence of God or intelligent design. The fact that there are so many theories even within the Abiogenesis crowd that it's obvious the scientific evidence we have is very muddy and subjective based on how you look at it. You don't have to be stupid to believe in Intelligent design, just as you don't have to be stupid to believe a different theory on how abiogenesis may have happened if indeed it did.

I guess I get tired of the assumption that anybody who believes in God or Intelligent design is somehow a dolt that lives under a rock and hates science (not saying you believe that, but many people do). I can see the same data you can, but as happens even in the scientific community, we can both come to different conclusions without either of us being stupid.