Was the Moon Landing the Most Badass Event in American History?

[Mr Khan]

outlawauron said:

the_dengle said:

outlawauron said:

Really now? Here's a direct quote from Lincoln.

""I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything."

His goal of unifying the country was admirable, but he did (suspending habeas corpus to jail senators and media who disagreed with him) and said plenty of despicable things.

Yeah, as I said, everyone was still really racist. But one side of that war recognized that slavery was finished and the other did not. Tell me, if slavery was not an issue and was purely propoganda by the North, why were all of the Confederate states slave states, and why didn't the Confederacy likewise put an end to slavery?

One side didn't recognize it as finished as there were 4 slave states fighting for the Union. And if the Union thought slavery was finished, why did they wait till after the war to forbid slavery? The emancipation proclamation did not stop slavery in the 4 slave states or any of the terriotory that the Union had won back. Slavery was an issue, but it was not the main issue or catalyst for secession. I do believe that if the Civil War never existed and there were two separate countries, slavery would have ceased to exist. It would certainly not have come as early as the 13th Amendment did, but manufacturing would have crept down and and so would abolition.

I understand we're debating nuances of what is a great evil, but let's not paint the broad brush that you are.

Politics. There's really little room to be ideological when war is going on, and you certainly don't want to alienate more states than you have to.

It's hard to sort out what Lincoln's true views were, or if they truly changed in the course of the war. The likelier explanation is that he was either always in favor of freedom and integration for the slaves, but made his "send them back to Africa" comments before the war in an effort to not appear too radical, or he may have never really wanted to make the slaves American citizens, but realized he could score huge for the Republicans if he did.