Evidence for the existence of God

[senseinobaka]

appolose said:

Of course, Death could not be tortured forever. But then again, if the lake of fire is total annihilation, then Death could not be destroyed either, since death is merely a physical process in your context. I would postulate that Death as it is refered to here is meaning, therefore, something else. Now, in Revelations 20:10, it says "And the devil... was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. " In Matthew 25:41, concerning the unsaved it states "Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angles." Also, on being called the second death: this does not necessarily imply nonexistence. The first death, physical death, does no mean the non-existence of the body, but the seperation of the spirit and the body. So the second death does not mean the nonexistence of anything, as did neither the first. The second death could even be thought of as (you may be aware of this idea) the spirit's seperation from God himself.

 1) Death is very destroyable. Remember death is the result of Adamic Sin and Jesus Ransom repurchases us from adamic sin. Under God's kingdom Adamic Sin and Death will no longer exist. They will be destroyed.

2 )You mention Rev 20:10. You obviously understand who the devil is, but do you know who the beast and prophet is? That entails a very long discussion of revelation that I'm not going to get into. But I will mention something I said later in the post you quoted. The lake of fire and the lake of burning sulfur are allusions or references to an actual place that tangibly existed. The place is called Gehenna and it was a trash dump that was on fire 24/7 and smelt as sulfur. It pictures destruction as if by fire, or a ceasing to exist. Second Death, from which there is no ressurection.

3)Torment is translated from the "basanistes" It literally means 'jailers'. The idea being that Satan's imprisonment to everlasting destruction is indeed torment. It is different than the idea of torture and suffering that is derived from the greek word "basanizo" which literally means 'test by the proving stone or torture.'

4)Eccl. 9:4-6,10 specifically mentions the state of those who die from adamic sin. The are not conscious of anything. The are simply dead. The teaching of an immortal soul is not found within the bible. That is another "weed" that was infiltrated from the Hellenic religions. If you want proof turn your bible to Genesis 2:7. Here the bible specifically says that God breathed the breath of life and the man came to be a living soul. It does not say that the man was giving an immortal soul. The word soul is derived from the Hebrew word "nephesh" which literally means 'a breather; being' and the greek word "psyche". Nephesh describes living things, such as humans and animals. The word does not describe spirit creatures. Spirit creatres are described by the word "ruach" in hebrew and "pneuma" in Greek and are never used to describe any part of a human.

5)Second death does represent eternal destruction. Those going thru second death have no hope of resurrection. They will be destroyed forever. Those going thru second death are said to be thrown into the garbage dump gehenna, the place that burns with sulfur, and destroyed (not tortured).