How to Destroy an Athiests in a argument! (Updated with poll)

[DaRev]

Alara317 said:

DaRev said:

First off let me say that I'm sorry you feel that religion/Christianity has been basically forced down your throat for most your life - seriously, I men that.

However, such doesn't excuse your ignorance.For a serial rapist or pediafile will find very little sympathy from other for his wrong doing. I'm not calling you a rapist or a pedafile, but only pointing out that wrong doing has no excuse. I say you're doing wrong because if you know anything about religion/Christianity you would know that it is all about LOVE. And it is probably love, maybe a bit misguided, that has brought so many religious people into your life.

 Secondly, the fact that you've been in many religious discussion, doesn't mean jack. Next thing you'll be telling me is that because you have a political view, you're a Polititian or fit to be a Senator or maybe even President? Being in religious debates doesn't mean you're a religious scholar, but it could mean you've just been talking shit all these years with absolutely no foundation. Ultimately, the point I was making is that to be good at anything, you have to spend years dedicated to it, whether it be a profession, a hobby, or even Religion/christianity. Just talking about stuff doesn't make you an expert - and certainly not fit to debate Christianity.

With regards your challenge in bold, what is your argument or point of view about Christianity? For the sake of argument, mine wouuld be that God loves everyone, including you, even now. So what's your argumen or angle?

Bold - No, no it is not.  Religion is only about what an individual wants it to be about.  for some it's about controlling others through fear or desperation. for some it means justifying evils.  for some it's the unbridled truth in their eyes.  For others it's just another way to segregate us.  Since Religion as a whole has so many denominations, sub-groups, and variations (has to be up in the millions by now), there's absolutely no way you could possibly claim that you know what each and every facet of each and every variation is about.  If that's what it means to you, then by all means please do continue to preach love and tolerance and understanding and kindness, but don't dare think that just becuase you want to believe something (Religion is about Love) that it's true.  that's kind of what this whole discussion is about.  

And I'd say dedicating 7 years of my life to fighting off logical fallacies, aggressive ignorance, and constant judgement-based harassment is a pretty good amount of time dedicated to the craft of fighting religious ignorance and intolerance.  

I've had people tell me that my relationship with my girlfriend was an affront to God becuase homosexuality was a Sin.  When I asked for proof, all they were able to bring up was a quote from Leviticus where Jesus said something about it being Wicked for a man to lie with another man (citation Needed.)  I countered it saying that nowhere in there did it say that homosexuality was a sin and that it was a very vague statement up to an individual's personal judgement and interpretation.  I was once again told I was ignorant of the subject since I had the devil in me.  No refute to my point, just a casual dismissal becuase they had nothing to say.  

When people make faulty points regarding religion, science (especially evolution), and society in the name of religion, it's not hard for me to go through a list of logical fallacies and pinpoint exactly why their argument fails.  Back it up with science, back it up with history, back it up with logic and rationale and even explain the behaviours with even the most basic of human psychology, and you will not convince a religious person that they're wrong.  I quoted House earlier and I stand by my assertion that rational arguments don't work on religious people, otherwise there would be no religious people.  I'm not saying all religious people are dumb or ignorant or stupid, but the very concept of religion has about a dozen logical barriers to overcome.  The entire thing is based on faith, faith above all else that people aren't lying to you.  Faith that the bible (or whatever holy scripture you believe in) was written by the hands of god, that it was never tampered with, that the people telling you about it don't have an agenda, that something that was relevant over a millenia ago is still relevant today, that in spite of hundreds of doomsday rapture threats that never came true, that there's an afterlife.  

Every religious argument is inherently faulty becuase it's based on assertions with no backing evidence.  you can believe anything you want, and you can even debate philosophies with ease, but once you start making assertions about the genesis of the world, our place in it, and the existence of beings and their supposed judgements, you need more proof than any religion can offer.  

It can't be done, yet religion still gets to control the world.  I have a real issue with that.  And being critical of it and demanding it play by the same rules that anything else in the world has to play by is met with aggressive hostility mixed with the symphonic blubbering of zealouts unable to support their claims, collectively resorting to a base 'freedom of religion' clause.  

I really wish I had my big list of different ways to debunk religion on me.  it would be fun to copy and paste the lengthy explanations as to why each and every pro-religion argument can be effectively debated and crushed with simple logic, historical proof, and above all else, science.  

Proviso: I’m only speaking about Christianity in the following.

 

Regarding you first paragraph, John 3:16 is probably the most well know verse in the Bible, “For God so LOVED the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” If you know anything about Christianity, as you claim you do, you would know that the whole of Christianity is based on God’s love for us, in that we cannot save ourselves because of human nature, that he sent his Son Jesus out of love to help bring us salvation from ourselves. Analogy, some people use knives to kill, some people use knives to cook, but that doesn’t change what a knife is. Similarly Christianity is love, no matter how people use it. It’s the people that are wrong not Christianity.

 

Regarding your second paragraph, so where has all this fighting religion gotten you? You sound quite bitter and broken to me. Maybe you should stop fighting, and start loving.

 

Regarding your third paragraph, I agree that it is wrong to simply say that God doesn’t like homosexuals. Again I say God loves everyone. However it is the ‘unnatural’ sexual act that, IMHO, God has a problem with. For example, Murderers and Homosexuals are no different, as it is not the person that is the problem, but the act that they commit. Thieves and Liars, etc, are in the same boat, sin is sin, wrong doing is wrong doing, God doesn’t single out Homosexuality.  So while you were right stand up against those ‘Christians’, I assume because of your lack of knowing what the Bible says, you could argue except out of hatred. For example, why did you recite John 8:1-11 for them?

 

Regarding you fourth paragraph, too many points for me to tackle, so I will just focus on Faith. Again, I say that it is clear you have a lack of knowledge about the bible. For example, if I ask you what is faith, you probably give me some crap you pulled from the internet. But the bible clearly tells you what faith is at Hebrews 11:1 that “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” Now if you were study and dissect just that one verse from the Bible you will see that ‘Christian Faith’ has substance and is based on evidence. Then there is the word ‘hope’, which the bible also explains in great detail, but it’s not the kind of hope that people commonly use. Christian faith and hope has a sense of surety about it, for example, I hope that when I go to the bank I can get 20 of my 30 dollars put in. Not the same hope that I will win the NY lottery someday.

 

Regarding you fifth paragraph, God will not force you to believe in him, so neither should anyone else. The choice is yours. However, the evidence of God is all around you. For if you can believe that airplanes, cars, buildings, bombs, etc, in there perfection were all created, why would not believe that, humans, animals, water, mountains, in there perfection were also created? In the same way computers where created and didn’t just spring from the ground, same way humans didn’t just sprout from the ground. Bible talks about the evidence of God in Nature J 

 

Sixth paragraph, Christianity hopes to save all and that all come to the recognition of God. But it also says that MOST people will not believe. Hopefully you would be one of the MOST that don’t believe.

And finally, your last paragraph, I welcome you challenge, but please just post one or two. I really can’t tale these long posts J