Badassbab said:
Kasz216 said:
maximrace said:
I think they deserve their own state. The jews took away the palestines their land and made their own country on it. Now they act like it is their right to murder the palestines and so on. Letting this happen was one of the biggest mistakes the west ever made. Anyone who supports israel on this one is just a fool and should take some history lessons. |
That's... not remotely what happened... that's silly. If anyone needs a history lesson it's you.
First off... if anybody took the Palestinian's land it was the UK. Who took it from the Ottomans... who took it from the Malmulak Egptians (non arabs), who took it from the Kurds, who i beleive took it from the Crusaders?
Either way, the UK negotiated with the Palestinian leadership of the time to let Jewish people move in, in exchange for well... development. Since the Jewish people moving in were rich, were paying for the land they settled in and were building up the local economy.
The arabs backtracked on the deal, largely because the UK screwed the arabs.
See... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faisal%E2%80%93Weizmann_Agreement
Then the UK, taking soverignty from the Palestinians allowed Jewish people to BUY land from the Palestinians. Not steal it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_land_purchase_in_Palestine
UN plan made, Palestinians disagreed, wars happened, the arabs lost and lost a lot of land that way... and here we are.0
If you blame anybody. You don't blame the Jews. You blame the UK and the greedy palestinian elite, who sold land to make a quick buck. (Many of which are major figures or the fathers of major figures in Palestine.) All the jews did was buy unincorporated land that people were willing to sell to them after the foreign purchase laws were removed.
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I agree in the sense the Arab ruling Elite have a lot to answer for and share a huge responsibility for loss of land but only a fraction of it is down to Jews buying land. Also you are also omitting some crucial historical events namely-
Mass illegal Jewish immigration particularly from Europe.
The role violent Jewish millitant groups such as Irgun, Haganah and the Stern Gang played in forcing the British hand in their favour.
Unilateral declaration of Independence.
In fact why did the Palestinians turn down the UN partition offer? (It's worth noting the UN was much smaller in number back then and European colonial empires were still around).
| Territory | Arab and other population | % Arab and other | Jewish population | % Jewish | Total population |
| Arab State |
725,000 |
99% |
10,000 |
1% |
735,000 |
| Jewish State |
407,000 |
45% |
498,000 |
55% |
905,000 |
| International |
105,000 |
51% |
100,000 |
49% |
205,000 |
| Total |
1,237,000 |
67% |
608,000 |
33% |
1,845,000 |
| Data from the Report of UNSCOP – 1947 |
|
To claim that one of the more powerful empires of the day was pressured by small insignifcant terrorist groups is silly. It was more internal British pressure and Lobbying back in Britain then anything as there were Pro Zionist and anti-Zionist politcians in the government who gained and lost power. Besides, even at their heights... it was the arab groups were doing the same... and usually worse. The violence started with anti-jewish pogroms in the first place.... and the reason why the White Papers existed was... Arab violence. So really, illegal immigration only became illegal because of overwhelming arab violence... that unlike a few Israeli terroirst groups was instead a large recognizable part of the population.
If you play the violence game... The jews are still a distant third in blame.
As for the UN Partition plan... your using the wrong figures to begin with. 65% of the Jewish countries land was Jewish majority. The 55% number was the first plan before changes were made... the final borders went out of there way to cut out any enclaves with majority arab population.
Though even if you want to complain about the Partition plan.... Israel didn't have a vote on it.
