So who else writes?

[facher83]

blaydcor said:

facher83 said:

Mummelmann said:

 

I was mainly pointing out that he's overrated, which many would agree, just not those who haven't read anything in the genre besides Tolkien. I've read over 750 Fantasy novels, so I feel I have a pretty good selection from which to draw this conclusion instead of pulling it out of ass like many others could and probably would. Harry Potter is another series I feel gets undeserved attention along with Eragon series. HP is like "Oh this poor, single mom wrote this terrific book!" and Eragon is "Oh this must be the work of a prodigy for sure!". Tolkien gets cred for inventing the genre, which he kinda did, but others refined it. What I'm getting at is; your writing should be about the value and quality of the book rather than the fuzz revolving around your person or the circumstances under which the book was written, but such is not the case with these three examples (in my honest and somewhat educated opinion, that is).

I'm being picky because A: As stated above, I've read a whole lot of books in the genre (PS; I don't consider Harry Potter fantasy, it was just for examples sake), and B: I'm trying to make it into the bussiness myself with a script I've been working on for years so I'm being overly studious and methodical in my reading to detect ways I do not want to write. Simple as that. If you want to have a gander at those who helped refine the genre, I recommend Raymond E. Feist, David Eddings, Stephen R. Donaldson and Terry Brooks, all masters of their craft and pillars in the genre since its infancy. Now, if you choose not to follow up on my recommendations, that's fine by me. But don't call Tolkien by names he does not deserve for all his depth (which frankly is just too emphasized in LotR) before you've had ample time and sound basis for comparison. My father was easily the strongest man in the world until I started seeing weightlifting on TV or strongman contests. Broaden the horizon to get a clearer picture both near and from afar is all I'm saying.

I did not call Tolkien anything other than a good author, of which many can be. Your original post was to discredit writing techniques and the idea that being made a movie does not mean greatness - no, it does not, but consider the Bible and Tolkien in the same phraseof print production and you have to question why bringing movies in to it at all is grounds for making a point. Making movies has nothing to do with making books.

Take Star Wars, for instance... dozensupon dozens or more authors take on the SW cosmosand write stories that are certainly in greater depth and detail than George Lucas ever could have... it doesn't take away from the story at hand.

I could rant on Pong, about it being too simple and that better refinements are worth playing, but it's silly. Sure, it's true, but it's as if I would only want to stand on a pillar and preach how much more knowledgable I am than the other 500 million people who have heard of Pong but who have not heard of the Infinity Engine games.

As with most art forms, credit where deserved usually is given AFTER the person's death. Sorry to say it, but maybe your opinions of your authors will become realized in 80 years, just as that of Beethoven and Mozart, but there will always be people who discredit pioneers just for the sake of doing so.

That's just silly. He wasn't doing any slander of Tolkieen, simply stated he's overrated, and compared to others who followed him, not as good of a fantasy author. I've been reading fantasy with pretty devotedly for most of my life; the point he makes is completely right. Until you broaden your horizons, there's no way you can claim that Tolkieen is some inarguable lord of fantasy.

You even manage to discredit yourself with your pong metaphor. If you'd only played Pong, I'm sure it would seem like a fantastic game. However, we've all played games significantly more complex and better than Pong. Nobody would claim that Pong is a brilliant game that will never be equalled simply because it was basically the first videogame.

And your last line about Beethoven and Mozart makes no sense. Feist, Eddings, Donaldson and Brooks hold more respect within fans of the genre than Tolkieen does. Look up a few of reviews, and see what they say about their better books. And that's without having a multi-million, three movie Hollywoodization made to drag a couple million fans on their bandwagon.

 

 C:  Go back to the Bible reference.

 A:  I used a search on "slander" and couldn't find the word until you brought it up.... and I'm not even arguing anything other than "Author", and absolutely nothing to do with lords of fantasy genres - simply authoring and creating something people like - especially like enough for others to carry on other series and ideas stemming from that success, and be inspired...  And no, I don't see how I could shoot myself in the foot in saying that.

 B: Yes, it really is similar when the basics are at the heart of the issue.  Unfortunately a lot of people prefer Pong, even modern day updated-graphics pong with new controls (such as the Wii version on Wii-Play) a lot better than, say, Baldur's Gate, as I referenced the engine earlier - no doubt Baldur's Gate is a better game, but to the 99% of other real, living human beings out there, Pong is a better game for many reasons.  Checkers, chess, Axis and Allies, Warcraft, Starcraft, Rise of Nations....  each has a lot of complexity, and only people who wish to brag about themselves would choose the latter few and suggest the previous are not worthy in the presence of greatness.

 

Added D:  The only term that comes to mind when a topic such as "Any other writers out there" is watching aspiring authors/writers proceed to complain about their lack of fame, success, or how unfair it is that these 'lesser writers' got lucky when "I" could do so much better.  This is where I feel abstract artists fit the straight jacket, most people really don't care about it.

 

I'm sorry, go out and do it already.  Make something of it.  Get others interested in it.  No need to complain.  You're supposed to share, and if you haven't shared it with dozens of people, what does it matter?