$5 Trillion Price Tag for Public Pensions~ When is enough enough?

[mrstickball]

darkknightkryta said:

mrstickball said:

You're using zero-sum beliefs to explain a situation that isn't zero-sum.

The unemployed people? They can find jobs elsewhere. Its not unheardof for people to re-tool to other jobs. If they have any skills at all, they should be able to be hired elsewhere.

What jobs?  Most jobs are retail that don't pay well.  Most manufacturing jobs have been shipped over seas.

You have no idea about printing money, and your statements show it. Unless money is backed by something - goods and services being produced - then it is simply paper. If you let the print any amount of money beyond what the M1 or M2 level is, then you're simply inflating what is already there - which does absolutely nothing, other than drive up the price of goods and services, rendering the pensioners' funds useless.

Like I said printing money causes inflation due to your said reasons, but this doesn't change the fact that the money needed to pay the people of tomorrow does not exist as it's all in circulation already.

Furthermore, even if you magically waved a wand and made all rich people (say 250k/yr) pay 50% of their incomes, no loopholes, it would barely be enough to pay for what we spend today - much less what it'd be in 5 years. That doesn't include increases in government costs in so many other areas.

You're telling me that 125k a year isn't enough for anybody?  The livable wage up here in Canada is around 45k per person... that leaves 80k a year for people to save, spend, pay mortgages, buy Corvettes, etc.  This also gives the government 125k more to play with vs 50k they would be getting (assuming a 20% tax rate).

This is why many of us argue against the welfare state - it's not sustainable. When the lifespan of people is increasing, while government pensioner retirement ages are static, it continues to drain what little is in the system. Because of that, we've gone from 10 people supporting every 1 retiree to about 4.5 supporting 1 retiree, with that number dropping yearly.

This is true, but you have to pay pensions because you have to have people retire to free up jobs, which comes back to the need for more money to pay people.  Birthrates are increasing quite drastically there aren't enough jobs nor enough money for these people.

Furthermore, companies aren't downsizing because of greed. Where do you get that idea from? Do you even own or run a business? If it were greed, why would any company hire at all?

No I'm not a business man, but unemployment rate wouldn't be so high if business were hiring now would it?  Oh wait that's right most business aren't hiring and are slashing jobs or shipping them over seas.  Why would they ship jobs over seas?  To make more money by paying less in labour.  If that's not greed then I don't know what is.

 

1. If you have capital investment, and a good regulatory environment, you're going to be able to see lots of comparable jobs when people are downsizing. But when you have a bad economy that is shrinking, then you do in fact just get the crappy jobs.

2. If you want to pay the people of tomorrow, then you need to create goods and products that can create the money supply. Otherwise, you're just printing money which will render their pensions useless during hyperinflation. Its happened before. You can't print money into a prosperous economy.

3. If someone wants to work hard and become ultra-wealthy.....Why should you dis-incentivize them from doing that? The more you tax someone, the less motivation they are going to have to work hard and become rich. That creates huge problems, as many of the wealthiest also (tend to) contribute a lot to the economy.

4. You prove you don't understand why jobs are being shipped overseas. Yes, they are cheaper over there, but why are they cheaper overseas? If the simple answer was wages, then why did the jobs exist here at all in the first place? Would you like the real reason as to why jobs go overseas? Its not wages. Its regulations and overhead. Right now, it costs an average manufacturer about $15,000 USD in compliance costs per worker per year. If your job has 100 factory workers, then that means you have about $1.5 million USD in compliance costs every year you are here. That forces companies to significantly evaluate where they do business. This is why a country like South Korea is doing so well: Despite having a very modern economy, they are continuing to outpace virtually everyone else. Why? Ease of business & tax code. South Korea is one of the easiest in the world. It makes for more businesses and better ones too.