Kasz216 said:
Ail said:
Kasz216 said:
Ail said:
Kasz216 said:
richardhutnik said:
Kasz216 said:
I'm less worried about borrowing from China then I am borrowing from ourselves.
Intergovernmental debt is a bigger deal and generally ignored. (Hence why Clinton was able to "balance" the deficit, yet still raise the hell out of the deficit.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/its_still_an_empty_lockbox/2011/03/17/ABPpoym_story.html?nav=emailpage
is a good article on it.
Essentially, the US will likely get it's act together on what it owes other people... but likely screw over those who invest in social security, medicare etc. It's own people.
Hence why private social security is actually a GOOD idea.
Because I know if i put my money somwhere privately, that the US government can't steal it to spend it on defense or other welfare programs or whatever...
and in this case it really is stealing since they are spending money that is supposed to be used for social security on other things, replacing them with IOUs.
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Unless you end up having people put money besides Wall Street, privatization of Social Security becomes a bailout program for Wall Street. If Wall Street again goes bat loco and hedges like idiots and takes down everyone's pensions and retirement savings as a result, there will end up being a mass cryout by the public to save Wall Street.
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Fair enough... but if there is.. the end result is that we are exactly where we are anyway. People could always just have the government bail THEM out instead of Wallstreet and give them the benefits they would of got under Social Security.
While the best result is... this is not a problem anymore.
Alternativly we could be like every single other country in the world and privtise social security (and medicare funding etc) and put it in the hands of investors.
Which is actually the method I prefer most... however nobody is suggesting such a thing. Nobody has since Al Gore... who kinda suggested it maybe? I think he just wanted to dump actual cash into a reserve though, which didn't make sense to me.
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Err ?
You obvisouly don't know much about how Western Europe ( France for example) or Japan system works......
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That's exactly how Japan and France works.
http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/T120811003538.htm
"The nation's kosei nenkin public pension program for corporate employees logged a surplus of 2.91 trillion yen in the balance of payments for fiscal 2011, the Health, Labor and Welfare Ministry said Friday.
The market value-based balance swung into the black from the previous year's red thanks to investment gains on a stock market recovery from the slump in the aftermath of the March 2011 disaster, ministry officials said."
France's Pension Reserve Fund works the exact same way. Most countries take their surplus pension funds and invest them in the stock market and in bonds and hire successful investors to run their pension funds for them.
If you wanta big source.
http://www.oecd.org/insurance/privatepensions/40194872.pdf
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Neither country's system is privatized which was your big point.
And being french and having worked there I have a much better idea how the french system works..
You get guaranteed a certain percentage of your salary in retirement in france based on how many years you worked.
There is a retirement age ( much younger than in the US, around 63.5 I think now).
If you work the number of years required ( around 40) you get roughly 70% of your salary when you retire ( salary being determined on an average of what you made the last 5 or 10 years you were working).
No matter how good or bad the stock market does you get the same amount so the stock market has no impact.........
The fund you mention for France is some recent fund that was set up to help cover the deficit in pension payment that is forecasted to happen later in this century.
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Uness the pension fund goes bakrupt... in which case you lose your money.
Putting the money in the private sector... run by experts... aka privatising it. Is the only thing that makes any common sense.
The American plan of "IOU's" was just an awful idea.
That is my main point.
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That pension fund you keeps mentionning isn't what pays for social security benefits.
The money in this recently created fund barely covers the expense of french social security in 1 year..
It was created to help covers these costs when they run over in 10 years and the principal source of funding of that fund is actually the selling of wireless spectrum to cellphone networks.....
If the amount of money that comes in every year doesn't cover the amount going out the french government will do as it has done in the past which is one of two things :
- raise retirement age which is currently 62-63 ( far lower than in the US for example)
- increase retirement contributions through taxes.
There isn't the wild disagreement on this topic in France that there is in the US. There is some disagreement but neither side is seriously promoting moving toward a private system....
And once again the big difference between the french system and any US system is that you know in advance how much you will get in retirement in france, it is a fixed percentage of the income you had when you were working....
