| IIIIITHE1IIIII said: A widely established part in practicing the Abrahamic religions revolves appreciation of not only what you have, but also what you have been given. You are often, if not always, told something along the lines of, "God gave you life and free will. And so you have every reason to be thankful." On the surface this sounds perfectly reasonable: If it wasn't for God you would not be alive, you would not be able to enjoy life and if he had acted differently you may not even have had a free will at this point. For this reason you should never disrepect God in any sort of way. You owe him everything you have. Personally, I wouldn't say that we owe him everything though. Even if some believers may say otherwise. I say that he merely gave us the tools: The Earth, life and a free will. Then we and everyone else on this planet used these tools to create our current situation. We owe him the tools, not our own creations such as our children, all the things that we buy and the result (happiness, sadness, etc) of every other action that we make. He made it possible, we made it happen. Thus, while God did create life, you should still go thank your parents for creating you, while solely thanking God for making it possible. So, at this point we owe God the sheer possibility of making everything that we have possible, and it makes absolute sense to be thankful for that possibility. ...if you have anything to be thankful about, that is. I mean, millions of people have been born only to live through a miserable life. They may have died alone, lived on the streets, were forced to become prostitutes, commited suicide because of all of their misery and so on. Millions (if not billions) of people lived/lives through complete shit despite using their "blessed" free will only for good throughout their lives. They were never rewarded during their lifetimes, or at least not in a notable manner, and always thought deep inside that a quick route away from life would be better than living through the same shit for another 40 years. And what is God's response to this? APPRECIATE LIFE! Life is a gift! Commiting suicide is a sin! You owe me everything you have! Don't disrespect me by taking your own life, accept the fact that you can't do anything about your situation and start appreciating life! USE MY GIFT! You don't want to go to hell, do you? Now, at this point I can see one scenario in which case people still would side with God, namely the scenario where God put actual effort into making your life possible. If God actually went through blood, sweat and tears to make your life possible, then maybe it would make sense to show some respect in return. But the truth is that he didn't. God is almighty, remember? We are not the result of a thinking person working hard to achieve something, we are the result of an almighty being committing a random act which required no efforts whatsoever. Sure, the Bible says that he "rested" on the seventh day, but given how that would prove that he is not "fully" almighty I guess even strong believers would agree that that is complete bullshit, while all non-believers (well, and some believers) simply add this to the pile of contradictions found in the Holy Bible. Thus, the only reason left for these people to love and worship God should be their desire to enter heaven, not out of appreciation for what they have. They have every right to complain about their situation, but should refrain from doing so in an act of selfishness.....
In conclusion: A person who lives through nothing but shit despite great efforts owes God nothing but shit. And God should not expect these people to appreciate the lives that they have been given. They could and should complain about God being unfair, but probably won't since they fear going to hell.
I'm not saying that miserable people finding comfort through God is a bad thing. All I'm saying is that God is unjust. What do you say? |
"We owe him the tools, not our own creations such as our children, all the things that we buy and the result (happiness, sadness, etc) of every other action that we make. He made it possible, we made it happen. Thus, while God did create life, you should still go thank your parents for creating you, while solely thanking God for making it possible."
Reading this seems like a downplay of everything in which holds no ground. You try using semti cs to create this point. If God created your great great great great (you get the point) parnets then you owe him for your existence. Plus we also must ask why can't he just take it all back any second as he OWNS everything you make. Then yes you still owe him. You don't own anything and don't deserve anything so you owe him now if you just say well I don't have thank him then it's really you just arguing in a circle. You can't make anything happen without him first approving it which he does.... so there is no argument here beside arguing I don't feel like a owe God.
"...if you have anything to be thankful about, that is. I mean, millions of people have been born only to live through a miserable life. They may have died alone, lived on the streets, were forced to become prostitutes, commited suicide because of all of their misery and so on. Millions (if not billions) of people lived/lives through complete shit despite using their "blessed" free will only for good throughout their lives. They were never rewarded during their lifetimes, or at least not in a notable manner, and always thought deep inside that a quick route away from life would be better than living through the same shit for another 40 years."
And millions have had turn there life around and lived happy life. And we must not forget that one person dies it isn't over and stops. When that person dies on the corner by himself rejected by society he ISN'T rejected by Jesus based on society. Because of Jesus atonement and what God has deemed from it.... it doesn't end with the earth. Therefor, if you lived a horrible life on earth you can still go with Jesus on judgement day and will be washed of the evils of this world and go on to live forever purity. It is describe in the bible to be with God is to live imagnie the greatesst feeling and than imagine it being better. So, if we were to go on EVEN futher if you go to have you have eternality of to thank God for. So, again even if I got stabbed to death by some killer or family members were to die I know it's not over and ONLY the beginning.
"They were never rewarded during their lifetimes"
Why does it have to be in earth time when it is know that heaven is the ulimate reward (eternality of greatness). You act like heaven doesn't exist in christianity and that life stops here on earth when even Paul who was being beaten badly and knew he would be put to death knew it would not end here. Please don't ignore heaven into math because your giving half an argument more like a straw man.
"And what is God's response to this? APPRECIATE LIFE! Life is a gift! Commiting suicide is a sin! You owe me everything you have! Don't disrespect me by taking your own life, accept the fact that you can't do anything about your situation and start appreciating life! USE MY GIFT! You don't want to go to hell, do you?"
Wow someone arguing for suicide LOL that is a good one. Anyway back to the subject of suicide the point is to never give up on life and that there is ALWAYS a chance to change things or progress in someway if that means dieing to protect what you believe or something related. If you are not getting food or beaten then try to something to change it. It's never over until you die. But on the note of biblical does it say anything about suicide being morally wrong nothing is noted on suicide being wrong but in
"Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own, you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body (1 Corinthians 6:19-20)." Copy and pasted
But this passage is descibing that you should not treat your body wrong by harming yourself or someone else. And this is all assumed for the person to be a christian and not someone would doesn't know God or the bible. So, how does this relate to a person who doesn't know God/Bible would be based on Romans where God judges you based on your knowledge of the specific laws and as it based on common laws that God expects from all.
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Philippians 1:20-26:
Paul is contemplating whether it is better to live or die. He is hard pressed to decide between the two, "having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better. Nevertheless to remain in the flesh is more needful for you...yet what I shall choose I cannot tell." One commentator writes of this passage that Paul "does not know whether he prefers life with labor or death with gain...in a life-and-death situation, he scarcely knows which alternative is to be preferred." He chooses life." http://www.religioustolerance.org/sui_cscr.htm
^ Copy and pasted.
Suicide is touched here.
"Numbers 11:12-15 Moses was in despair because of the complaints of the Israelites whom he was leading. The burden of leadership was too heavy for him to bear. He asked God "If You treat me like this, please kill me here and now...""
Moses asking for God to kill him but was rejected because he had to do his job.
Copy and pasted.
"Jonah 4:1-11 God had threatened the destruction of the Nineveh, a city of 120,000 people. But the king and people of the city listened to Jonah, repented of their sins, and fasted. God changed his mind and did not destroy the city. Jonah was so angry at God's display of mercy that he asked God to kill him, "for it is better for me to die than to live!" He repeated the same request to God on the next day."
This was rejected too. But I think the point is that suicide was usually stated to God and was rejected but wasn't taken as a great moral sin but as decisions these people made must of which were rejected because of them having a job to do still. So, to say if you kill yourself and you will go to hell will have to depend on the context of which you killed yourself on and how God reacts to it. So, basically like everything in life it's not balck and white as you put it because your looking for the easy answer for simple mindedness.
"Now, at this point I can see one scenario in which case people still would side with God, namely the scenario where God put actual effort into making your life possible. If God actually went through blood, sweat and tears to make your life possible, then maybe it would make sense to show some respect in return. But the truth is that he didn't. God is almighty, remember? We are not the result of a thinking person working hard to achieve something, we are the result of an almighty being committing a random act which required no efforts whatsoever. Sure, the Bible says that he "rested" on the seventh day, but given how that would prove that he is not "fully" almighty I guess even strong believers would agree that that is complete bullshit, while all non-believers (well, and some believers) simply add this to the pile of contradictions found in the Holy Bible."
How was it random? Do you know what random is? When you get up at night and create breakfest is that random? Where do you get your defintions from?
You don't go through a organized progress and say it's "random". Man this is going to be the new Abarham didn't know God would do something LOL(EVEN QUOTED HERBEWS TWICE WERE HE SAID HE DID XD ). I would quote where he says "this was good" showing conscience decision and the process he made to create life but at this point if you don't understand basic words why bother.
On the point of "which required no efforts whatsoever" so if I were rich... and gave 100,000 dollars to charity then I we should not praise me because alll had to do was give some paper to the organization. Let's make this even better what if I never had to work in life from a trustfund from my parnets and gave fraction 5 percent to a charity should we not thank me at all? Man that guy had to do nothing but give some paper to person and kids were able to eat and have a better living. Haha no effort I'm a better person because did more physical work then him and I worked harder! No, come back to reality the amount of work a person puts into someone based on resources doesn't change the fact of a good deed it just makes you look very angry at life based on your limited resources. What did you want God to become a human and start fixing things up himself with limited ability do not realize how stupid that sounds? Your saying because God had the ablitity to create something with no effort that takes away the good being done. Let me give you one more example, so if I were to build a home for homeless people and have crapload of money which iI didn't work for does that mean the homeless shouldn't feel thankful? Oh... wait good job exposing your great logic you just proved how bitter your life really is. Your not at this point trying to see if God is bad or good your just trying to fed your own ego based on your bias on christianity. This is why I warned you not to make topics like this because there poor and ego boosting. Watch you dodge this one because you always do then create the same subject somewhere else.
"Thus, the only reason left for these people to love and worship God should be their desire to enter heaven, not out of appreciation for what they have. They have every right to complain about their situation, but should refrain from doing so in an act of selfishness....."
Yup people.... don't be happy you can loving family and that you all unique personallites. Don't be happy you have dreams. You would rather be dog chasing your own tail then trying to actual affect the world around you. Make sure to tell rich people who fund goodprograms to screw it and that they don't put as much enough as you in life! Live a hateful life don't thank anyone for that matter because really this thread really is about not being thank you for anything but yourself. I mean please tell why I couldn't use this poor arguemts against anyone? If someone libves your life don't thank them ! You should thank there parnets for borning them as they gave them the tools to do it! Oh wait... but who borned those parnets... Yea, I mean people are killing themselves is way better then finding a way out of hell hole because we know don't know anybody out that has miserable life and turns it around. I mean I personally worked with mentally challenged kids when I was in school and was the only male to do so because it wasn't "cool" and when the kids thank me for being there for them they really shouldn't have because society gave me the tools to help them! I mean all had to do was talked to the kids and play with them it didn't take any resources from me! Man it's a good thing I know IIIIITHE1IIIII is giving his time and effort to charities like I am like cleaning out rivers and helping children because he a he really cares about this people! Thank God we have people like him that complain about people being miserable and does everything he can to help them! He truely cares about people he is talking about because he takes his resources that he has to help him. Man I bet he gave more to charities then he did to video games this year alone!
In conclusion.
Using your arguments I can say nobody is owes anything no one is needed to be thanked. Heck, using your standards I can't find one person to thank in my whole life can't even thank my parnets without being hypocrite and really thanking my grandparnets for borning them. Your standard if isn't Godly posssible what do you think of a human ever reaching it. Heck, I don't even think you come even close to be thank for anything based on your own standard for God. It's basically argument made to be winned by arguing with personal bias with no actual substance . It was basically if your God and you anything for me it will not matter ANYWAY way because it would take no effort from him. You destroy any argument against it because it was so dumb you would have to first believe that was even a honest point or even coherent to begin with. This truely has to be the worst thread you ever made. It seriously makes me wonder even remotely if you realize that you have a strong bias against God in which you create special pleading arguments.
Quote of the week. [I will put in my sig at some point because how much of a facepalm I had)
"Sure, the Bible says that he "rested" on the seventh day, but given how that would prove that he is not "fully" almighty"
"Excuse me sir, I see you have a weapon. Why don't you put it down and let's settle this like gentlemen" ~ max
