You Don't Necessarily Owe God Anything

[DaRev]

Jay520 said:

DaRev said:

2) You got a limited view of God's PLAN OF SALVATION. You're only focusing on the punishment. It like a child being tought it the rights and wrongs of life, and when scolded because they chose wrong, decides their parent doesn't love them because they were punished. The fact of punishment doesn't mean that a parent or teacher or God doesn't love you. Punishment is PART of the solution that brings you to realization of whether something is wrong or right.

There are two stark differences between a parent's punishment and God's punishment.

1.) A parent's punishment is temporary and is meant to discourage future bad behavior. After an effective punishment session, a child leaves a better person and can make the world a better place perhaps by helping others. God's punishment is eternal and does not allow the person to ever learn a lesson. Apparently God is incapable of forgiveness after you die. God's punishment brings you to no salvation. Even if you reach a realization after your punishment, then it doesn't matter - you'll be punished forever. On the other hand, if you come to a realization after your parent's punishment, then s/he will likely discontinue the punishment. Why doesn't God do the same for changed people?

2.) God punishes people for things that He designed them to do - sin. We've already agreed that sin is intrinsically associated with humans; since they cannot live without God and without sin. Since Humans didn't design their inherent nature, the creator must be God. This means that God is designing humans for doing what He made them do. No competent parent would punish a child for doing something that they influenced the child to do. Why can't God do the same.

3.) There's a major limitation in God's power. It seems that once you die, if you haven't accepted God, then God is incapable of forgiving you. He completely lacks the ability to forgive you. He can't even forgive you if you've changed your ways after Hell.

Also, I find it funny that you compare God's PLAN OF SALVATION to the parenting strategies of humans. What's even funnier is the fact that God's plan seems inferior.

Again, you looking at this as if you’re a victim, as opposed to being a child of God.

 (1) (1) We are being punished right now, but through repentance and acceptance of God’s son Jesus you can be forgiven of your sins, even before you die. Death signals the end of humans having the ability to REPENT for their sins. God is not incapable of anything, however, he being a just God has set his rules in place and will follow them, because if he doesn’t he will be breaking his own rules. If you read ROMANS 6 in the bible you will see where it says that we should suffer NOW a SPIRITUAL death, before our physical death, so that we can be forgiven for our sins. Again it is your perception of that blinds you. God uses death as something good (yeah I know it sounds strange) since it takes us out of this world of stress, misery, sin and ultimately death – which is a good thin

2)    (2) God didn’t design humans to fail or sin. The point is that with choice comes the ability for humans to sin, but that doesn’t mean that God designed or wants us to sin. Moreover, God knowing our propensity to sin, had a PLAN OF SALVATION through his son Jesus. So God loved us and provided for even before Adam and Eve sined.

 

3)    (3) See (1) above. Yes, one must come to the acceptance of God before you die to escape his judgment, but God offers you that opportunity now. That is not a limitation on God because he doesn’t forgive you after you die, but that he is a just God that will follow his own rules.

As for God’s parenting vs that of Humans the bible at Isaiah 55:8-9 says:

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the Lord. “As the heavens are higher than the earth,so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.”