You Don't Necessarily Owe God Anything

[DaRev]

Jay520 said:

DaRev said:
So what you're saying is it's theoretically impossible for a human to not sin. Sinning is an intrinsic part of being human. If that were true, then 1.) Humans do not have free will because we are incapable of not sinning, and 2.) God punishes humans for their innate essence - something humans do not have control over. 

Well, I would say that, without the help of God, it is impossible for humans to not sin or even know what sin is. I believe that being true (1) humans do, however, have free will and can accept that God’s teaching which inevitably makes humans POTENTIALLY incapable of sin (read Romans 6), (2) God does punish humans for their innate essence, but humans, with God’s help, can overcome their innate desires, and even if they fail to do so, God will not see them as sinners but children who have made a mistake a will be forgiven if they ask to be.

Yes, I believe the world steamed from two people. For example, I saw a documentary about the American Wild Mustang/Horses and how a small number were brought to America. In just a couple hundred years they number in the millions. Same applies to any other species on earth, including humans. Introduce a small number into a new environment, give it a couple hundred years, and watch the population grow. Humans had many thousands of years to populate the earth, yes, from just two people.

 

1.) Exactly, a person cannot escape sin on their own - they are completely incapable of doing so. That should be clear evidence that we lack free will. 

2.) God designed our inherent nature. Therefore, it's not fair that he punishes us for our inherent nature. Just because we can escape the punishment (through worship or whatever) doesn't negate the fact that the punishment is unfair. There shouldn't be any punishment to escape in the first place. That's like programming a robot to walk, yet getting upset everytime the robot walks.

There's a large difference between a "small number of people" and just two people. Also, the birth defects resulting from incest would probably be too frequent to allow such a civilization to survive.

2) You got a limited view of God's PLAN OF SALVATION. You're only focusing on the punishment. It like a child being tought it the rights and wrongs of life, and when scolded because they chose wrong, decides their parent doesn't love them because they were punished. The fact of punishment doesn't mean that a parent or teacher or God doesn't love you. Punishment is PART of the solution that brings you to realization of whether something is wrong or right.