JazzB1987 said:
SlayerRondo said:
JazzB1987 said:
SlayerRondo said:
Jay520 said:
spurgeonryan said:
You know that is not what I am saying. So should we just let animals live and take over the planet? How far should we over step our bounds as humans?
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Huh? I don't understand your question.
All I'm saying is if something is found in nature, that doesn't necessarily mean it's okay for Humans to do the same thing.
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Why is it ok for animals to do the natural thing and eat meat but not humans?
Because its not natural for us and wildlife animals have a chance we just have our animal "prisons" and kill the ones we want. They have no fair chance to survive at all.
1. SO its ok to eat animals if you give them a shot at getting away? That doesnt make much sense now does it.
Does it not have the same outcome for both of them with animals dying?
No see above. Plus wildlife animals kill other animals because they are hungry. We do it because of profit and because we are bored and want to eat. We kill more than we "need" to. Plus tons of meat are wasted because it is thrown away after reaching its expiration date.
2. We eat animals because were hungry and it taste good. And now its wrong to make money from providing people with meat is it? Do you think animals go Hmm i hope that the people who butcher me are not making a profit because that would be wrong. We do everything in our society for a profit cause thats how the economy works you moron.
Why not kill off all the animals who eat meat to save the vegetearing animals?
Because this would manipulate the natural food chain etc. And mess up the environment. BTW This argument makes not sense at all.
3. Would it not save all the animals from being eaten by others? Are we not also manipulating the food chain by not eating meat we desire to because of supposed ethical reasons?
Because that would lead to other animals overpopulating and messing up the environment!
Guess what! We are animals too and we are overpopulated and are #1 at messing up the environment. So lets kill 95% of all people okay? Sorry but NONSENSE again.
Yes the difference being people have emotions as well as hopes and dreams that make killing them slightly different to other living beings. Plus human overpopulation IS a problem that we have to deal with at some point or another. And how is it nonsense saying the animals that eat vegetables would become overpopulated? THEY WOULD if they suddenly lost their natural predators
How do you not know that but fore there use as food for people chickens, cows and pigs would have gone extict or will go extinct in the future? If we never removed them from their natural habitat and if we never destroyed that habitat there would be a big chance of wild chickens running around etc. BTW there is still wild chickens on this planet noone bothers to find them.
4.Yes in certain numbers. Release the chickens in captivity and watch them get masacred by their natual predators or overpopulate and need to be culled. And yes we do take up alot of space but both the chickens and thier predators suffer from this.
Is it not better to live a short life and be made food rather than to have been wiped out centuries age?
No why would it be better? Is it better to kill 1 year old babies than to maturbate? of course not.
5. No but a 1 year old lamb with not emotions and hopes might apreciate the short life.
While the living conditions of animals need to be improved there is no evidence that they experience emotions (that cant be explained by instincts) or desire a future which are essential when determining the worth of a creatures life to itself. There is prove they show emotions so please educate yourself before saying something like that. There was a myth that fish doesnt have emotions but even this is now proven false! And btw what do emotions have to do with anything? Why not its okay to kill everything that cant say PLEASE DONT! Its just some kind of excuse to keep killing animals.
6.They also cant apreciate life in any meaningfull way making their existence pointless. The evidence supporting animal emotions is garbage compiled by people who desperately want to prove animals can feel hapiness. Sadly they cant and people just have to accept this and move on with their lives. Without happiness life is not worth living but animals serve a purpose to provide food for people and other animals.
PS: As far as science goes in the next couple of decades we will be able to produce meat without any awarness or intelligence at all. In my opinion this is bad as then the animals wont even have a short life to live as they will no longer be bred at all. There are billions of pigs in the world and barely any Polar bears. Which one do we eat again? Even tho meat is unnecessary for humans to survive. Lab meat is a good idea becaue it wastes less ressources in producing the meat. (you dont waste ressources to create eyes teeth noone wants to eat.
And doestn require anyone to kill animals.
We "created" those billions of pigs thats why they are there.
7. Exactly we created thoose pigs because they served a purpose as food. Without us eating them they may well number in the hundereds or be extinct.
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Dude srop it please:) your replies are hilarious and another example of LETS DEFEND MY LIFESTYLE FOR THE SAKE OF DEFENDING IT.
1. noone said its okay to kill animals that have a chance to flee. Thes question was why is it okay for animals and not for us.
Please read what I say and stop twisting it so your "argument" makes sense ;)
I said its okay for animals because its natural for them as opposed to why we do it. Another reason for: why its different for humans and animals was that we dont give our "victims" a chance at all. I said this to show that its a totally different situation and thats why you cannot compare wildlife carnivores to us.
Itd natual for people to eat animals as well seeing as weve been doing it for thounsands of millenium. And do you think animals care that they dont get a chance to be free? There animals and no matter who eats them there just as dead. Giving an animal a chance to survice in the wild somehow means something to the animals? PLerase explain why a cow would care if it was butchered on a farm or eaten in the wild despite not having the intelligence to know the dofference?
2.We eat animals because they taste good? So why dont you eat dogs? Or what about human babies (humans are animals too)? We eat animals because we are used to it 90% of the people in the first world have no idea what hunger is at all so the hunger thing is no argument since we have enough to eat thats not meat. I really would like to see how you eat raw cow meat you ripped from a cows bone ;) have fun digesting it :) dont forget to tell my how good it tastes without it being smoked cooked and spiced :)
You dont seem to get what I say: You think you need to eat meat because the industry is lying to you because they want to make profit. Making profit in itself is no problem at all the reason why so much meat is offered is not because its good for us but because it makes profit.
BTW I report you for the MORON thing now ;)
Im saying that thats why we eat animals. You dont eat babies even if they tasted good because they have emotions and a future with hopes and dreams that give life value to human beings that animals dont have. I dont think i need to eat meat i eat it because it taste good and provides valuable nutrients. Yes the meat industry like EVERY OTHER INDUSTRY IN THE WORLD wants you to eat more meat and will highlight its strong points. You could equally say that the animals rights movement is lying to you because they dont want people to eat meat or the vegeterian food products industry is lying to you to get you to buy its food.
3. Who are we to decide what animal should be killed so another one can survive? I dont really understand the food chain example you just made but if anything manipulates the food chain its us eating meat because of the indutry that keeps convincing us we need to even if we dont.
We were eating meat loooooooooooooooooooooooong before the meat industry became a commercial force so you're argument has been proved wrong by history in that people have decided that they liked meat by themselves.
4. Noone said we should free billions of pigs cows and chicken right now and watch the world get fucked up. The right way would be to not "create" more and well I suppose eat the ones we have right now. I dont understand why you try to tell me it will just get worse when we try to fix the issue. We should try to find out how it was before we messed it up. And if this is not possible just stop creating more and let the ones in the wild do their own thing fate. Noone has to make it worse. I dont really understand what you want to tell me with the chickens and predators suffer from us taking up all the space. Are you tellining me that its okay since its balanced lol?
Why not create more? Do you think a pig contenplates the short life it has been given before it dies? No it lacks the intelligence to know and the emotions to care at all.
And what i meant by the space argument is that while chickens populations in the wild may have been hurt by human land development (something that anyone who live in a house "aka you" is a part of) their predators have also had their populations reduced.
5. LOL just think about what you just said: It goes something like this ANIMALS ARE STUPID THEY HAVE NO HOPES AND NO EMOTIONS BUT EVEN THO THEY HAVE NO EMOTIONS THEY WILL BE HAPPY THAT THEY HAVE AT LEAST 1 YEAR. ???
If making both arguments. I dont believe they appreciate life at all so ten years or one day of animal life makes no difference to me. But you on the other had do believe animals have the intelligence to appreciate life and therefore i argue that an animal who appreciates life (but would be unable to know its inpending doom) would enjoy one year of life more than not being born at all.
6. And now you tell me they cant apreciate life so your POINT 5 makes even less sense. Btw who are you to tell them their existence is pointless? How useful is your or my existence? We waste this planets ressources far more than animals do. If anything should die thats US. We are more useless. And if you disagree why do you disagree? Because your human mentality thinks humans are useful animals are not? What if the cow things the other way around? Why is your opinion correct and the animals opinion is wrong? The cows existance is not useless just because humans think so lol.
In my opinion the point of existence is to experience happiness and other emotions. Without humans to appreciate the world or other beings capable of emotion their would no point to the world at all. Any resources used to creat human happiness are not wasted at all in my opinion.
Btw I have no idea if you ever cared about animals or not BUT ANIMALS HAVE EMOTIONS. Think about it for a second. There is two types of emotions. The first type are the basic emotions such as fear or happiness. This type was always relevant for survival. Sex makes animals happy therefore they have sex. It was planned this way and it works this way. If you attack an animal that has the ability to defend itself (cat dog etc) the fear of feeling pain again helps the animal to survice and it will defend itself or they will run away if they have no way to defend themselves. Thats just one example. This type is about motivation.
Instinct and emotion are not the same thing.
The second type is something we cant explain yet thats the complex emotions such as jealousy. We dont really understand how they work and especially not how they work for animals.
If we cant understand them ourselves how can we claim animals have them?
Lets say you have a cat and its on your lap your second cat now wants to be on your lap because it knows you will pet it. Your second cat links being pet to happiness. It tries to jump on your lap but the first cat is in the way. Your second cat wants to remove your first cat so there is space on your lap. It doesnt do it because the second cat thinks the first one is pet by you and also wants the same treatment it tries to remove the first cat because the first cat is an obstacle. This again is the basic motivation driven behavior.
Or one cat protecting its food source
Jealousy e.g. is strange because its somewhat based on the basic emotions but its actually not its hard to explain.
It's more like I WANT IT TOO We are jealous because we have learned that the way we life is not the only way that exists we compare ourselves to others. We are not sure what animals have those compex emotions / what complex emotions animals have if they have any at all. But jealousy seems to be one of the complex emotions cats dont have. (if thats an emotion at all I DOUBT IT)
7. We certainly dont know what would have happened to cows chckens etc if we never messed up the natural situation because its to long ago. But even if they would go distinct it would be okay because thats the way the cookie crumbles.
I mean would you clone neanderthalers and eat them because they are tasty and tell them to STFU because without you they would not exist? Just because you helped them you feel they owe you something in this case their meat? Would you eat your own baby? It is meat and its just there because you made it cant. And its proven that human babies are more stupid than ape babies so they cant complain right?
Using neanderthales as an argument does not work becuase they are capable of emotion. I have said constantly that its wrong to eat humans (neanderthals included) because they are capable of emotion. And human babies can experience emotions where animals cant so intelligence does not matter.
But i will concede that we should not eat primates as they have sufficently displayed their intelligence and emotional capacity.
And just because weare to stupid to find out wheter or not animals have "complex emotions" doesnt give us the right to eat them or treat them as sub-species.
Yes it does in my opinion.
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