Who won the debate? Biden or Ryan?

[sperrico87]

richardhutnik said:

sperrico87 said:
Both held their own very well. There wasn't a clear winner like last week's debate with Obama and Romney. Biden interrupted a lot, smirked and laughed a lot, and was generally rude and not respectful. Whether or not you like that style of debating will likely decide for you who "won". On substance, they seemed pretty even. Biden delivered a very good show for the left's base. Ryan delivered a good show for the right's base, even if it was a tad on the moderate side of things.

The only part of the debate I really had a hard time with was the abortion segment. Why didn't Ryan make it clearer that there isn't much Romney could as President to limit abortion? He could do very little, other than Supreme Court nominees and over-turning that international funding that can be used for abortion. Ryan could have made his party's point much clearer I thought. It's not like if Romney is elected all the sudden women are going to have more difficulty getting abortions. That's not the case at all.

If Romney or Ryan come out and say there isn't much they can do about abortion, they are going to lose the socially conservative base that is pro-life.  They are invested in the GOP, because the GOP panders to them with promises of ending abortion.  Say they can't do anything about it and they will lose the base.  If you end up mentioning the Supreme Court resolving things, then you make the Suprepe Court an even larger political issue.

And on the abortion issue, there is a degree of irony that those who are pro-choice and those who say they are pro-life (but want to gut welfare) end up crying out about "meanness" and "compassion".

I disagree. You base your argument on the assumption that without welfare people would be starving to death and dying in the streets, therefore in order to be "compassionate" you must support welfare.  Well, that's not actually true, because most of the compassionate types who are pro-life give generously to charity and in many other ways support the sick and the needy both directly and indirectly by tything to their Church and being active in the community.

I resist any accusation that says "those who are pro-life are hyprocrites because they don't care about poor people" or other poorly formed arguments.  They are entirely false and based on false assumptions about what true compassion really is.  For instance, if you were truly compassionate, you would resist welfare because it incentivises people to not work and to take instead of give.