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fighter on 13 October 2012
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insomniac17 said:
Jay520 said:

1.) I was moreso interested in your opinion of the matter. I already have a pretty decent understanding on why Islams are punished by the Christian's God.

2.) If logic is the factor that determines someone beliefs, then that still wouldn't be fair to the person. If a person has weak reasoning skills, then they are liable to place faith in the correct religion. Without an objective way to determine which religion is logically consistent, then people have to rely on their own subjective forms of logic. So, if a person bases their beliefs on what seems logically sound to them and they end up choosing Islam over Christianity, then why should they punished?

3.) If God's existence is proven to a person, that person would not necessarily be forced to love him. Example: Satan

In any case though, you've agreed that there is no proof that Christianity is the true religion. According to Christianity, people pretty much have to guess between Christianity, Islam and every other religion. Do you think it's fair that people are punished for making incorrect guesses, as a result of no proof? What makes a person who guesses incorrectly any more worthy than someone who guesses correctly? It seems like a purely arbitrary and flat out unfair way to judge someone's eternal life.

1. My opinion on if it's fair for someone who has found faith in another religion to be punished? I suppose I don't really see it as punishment. I see it as an offer. You can accept Jesus' sacrifice, or you can reject it. Both choices will lead to some result, and the result of both is known to us from the Bible. So if someone rejects Christianity by finding faith in another religion, then they have rejected that sacrifice and the means to salvation from sin. 

2. Quite possibly. I never said that life was fair. You need only look around the world to see that. Much like how Christians see us all as sinners and sin originated from one person, perhaps people in a worse place are in that place because the sins of their ancestors were greater, and they live in a culture with more sin. It's not fair, but it's also not of God's doing. 

However, my point was that if a religion is true, then you should be able to objectively see that all facts point towards that religion at the exclusion of all others. You can then see that this one religion is the only logically consistent religion and then, you may choose to take that step of faith. 

The Bible warns in false prophets, and it is up to us to be wary of them. If you are in doubt, you are supposed to look to the Bible. If it is not in the Bible, it's wrong. Satan is the father of lies and works to decieve all of us; to lead us away from God, who is referred to as the Truth in Christianity. 

What you're seeking is fairness. That's just not how the world works. What you need to keep in mind about the Christian God is that while you could say that his lack of intervention is the cause of all of this, you could make a much stronger case that we are in this position because humanity has sinned and has chosen this world in which we live. It's not God's fault that we're here; he gave us free will after all. It's our own fault.

3. Satan is a fallen angel, not a person. Regardless, I see your point. Let's look at it this way. If God used his power, then people are still free to not love him. It's not forcing them to. But if they do love him, would it be because he has shown himself to be powerful, or would it be for he himself? More people would likely love God if he showed his powers, but I don't believe it would be love of God himself; rather, it would be love of what he can do for you. 

 

I'm saying that I don't know if it is or not. That's why I'm studying it. I've mentioned a few problems that I'm having with it, but that doesn't mean it's wrong. I can't call it quits this early on, because I haven't gotten close through going through the entire thing yet. I haven't researched these problems that I'm having where it seems to contradict science, which is something I need to do for myself to see if these are actually problems or not. It'll be a long process, but I think it will be a very good experience.

According to Christianity, people must either accept or reject Christ's sacrifice. Everyone who has heard of Christianity has had the choice to look into it for themselves. (Again, I'm confused about people who haven't heard about it... not sure how that works out). If people choose not to look into it, or look into it and choose not to believe... then they have still rejected Christ's sacrifice. That is a pretty darn consistent basis from which to determine who is saved and who isn't. 


Jay asks why would god organize such a complex tombola to salvation since no proper logic or argument allows to place one religion ahead of others

you reply that there is a logic placing christianity ahead of others without specifying it...

i imagine you must have compared quite some religions to finally come up with such an established position

 

about the people who didn't choose christianity as their religion and, by your words, will not be saved, are children / handicapped / aborted babies / muslims / jewish / budhhists / atheists / agnostics / pagans / satanists / shintuists / etc. etc. 

 

and you still get that as logical ?

 

 

My friend, there is no logic in your text, and i am not satan trying to push you from your righteous path, nor a jealous person that you might be save and i not.