Is the worship of God really necessary?

[IIIIITHE1IIIII]

insomniac17 said:

FIrst, in the beginning, everything was perfect. Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden. They had anything they could ever want, and they had the most intimate relationship with God that any person on this planet has ever had, aside from Jesus. God did not want to force Adam and Even to love him, however, and so he gave humanity free will. But for there to truly be free will, there had to be an option for people to not choose God. And so he placed the Tree of Knowledge in the garden, and forbade Adam and Eve from eating its fruit. This was fine, until Satan came in and convinced Eve to doubt God's word and eat the fruit. This was the first sin.

Because of this, humanity was cast out of the garden. This wasn't done to be mean, but to keep Adam and Eve from eating from the Tree of Life... and to keep them from living forever in sin. The punishment for sin is death, and if you cannot die and are sinful, you can't ever be freed from your sin.

So, basically, God wanted to punish the humans for not listening to him, and for trusting the snake who made them choose to eat the fruit. Even after they were in great shame.

Looks like this God is not a huge fan of human nature. I, myself, would not blame my kids if they started to trust a complete stranger who happened to eventually hurt them. I would feel sorry for my kids, not call them sinners or anything similar.

The reason that your hypothetical wife passed away is because she was a sinner. Eve committed the first sin, and spread that sin to Adam (Adam is at fault for his sins; don't get me wrong. He made the choice to accept the fruit), and so because of the nature of a sin (that it spreads to others), all humans are sinners. It is because we are sinners that we have the world in which we live. All of the evil and horrible things you see could have been avoided had Adam and Even chosen better. At the same time, while sin originated from one place, there is also a way to have your sins forgiven through one place, and through that you can gain eternal life. This, I would assume, is something like what you saw in the Garden of Eden.

I wouldn't blame my hypothetical wife for doing something that Eve has done. In my eyes, she is the last person to even consider hurting others. And I don't buy that she died for decisions made by someone else. If she did some horrible things it would be (at least more) understandable if God wanted to punish her, but she was a way better human than any other living being in the neighborhood who still happens to be alive. It is not fair.

On the contrary, God is very fair. To me, it seems that the Christian God loves humanity so much that he won't take away our freedom to choose how we live our lives. He has also offered a path that will lead to an eternal and sinless life. That seems more than fair, actually. Humanity by all accounts does not deserve to be forgiven of sin, yet he gave us the chance to be forgiven anyway.

God loves us so much that he let's us choose paths which will hurt us? (see:drug addicts, alcoholics). He also let's us be seduced by the Devil and other evil entities surrounding us? He let our trust (which we all are born with) betray us? After all, we don't ever choose who to trust. We automatically draws conclusions based on what we know and have experienced.

To your second part; I am indeed saying that the Christian God is not the cause of everything that happens. He gave humanity free will, and the world in which we live is the world that we have "asked" for through our actions. 

I didn't ask for the results of other people's actions, but I am forced to live in the hypothetical shit that they have caused. As a result, my actions may also become "shitty" since I have been skewed by my environment. Again, this is not fair.

Do people who recieve your love owe God or you anything? Well, my answer is no ,but let me explain just what I mean. When I say no, I mean that you are not obligated to return anyone's love. You are not forced to give anything in return. Lets say that you have offered your love and assistance to your child, but your child has laughed at you and said they don't want your help. Well, you were paying for them to go to college, but they refused your help. So you stop paying. You love your child, and you would be delighted to take up that bill again if they would accept it, but you won't force them to.

I suppose the question "Who do you owe?" was not the right question in that context. But rather: "Who would you say "Thank you" to?"

For instance, if someone fixed my roof I don't thank the creator of the hammer or nails. I thank the person who fixed my roof.

What's more important; the guy who invented the tool, or the guy who chose to use it for a good cause? Well... I'm not quite sure what you're asking here. Can you please explain what you mean?

That would be my above question.

Would the good cause not be valid since you chose not to believe in God? No, it would be valid. As would all of the other good deeds you have done, and all of the sins you have committed. And in Christianity, the only path to salvation is to accept Jesus as your savior. God is a perfect being, and humans fall woefully short. No human will ever be good enough in God's eyes, no matter how good the deed. But he offered a path to forgiveness of all sins anyway, because he loves us.

The only way of saving yourself is to say no to scientific knowledge (considering that you can't die and then respawn) and to trust a potentially skewed and biased source (the Bible, and all who claims/claimed to carry Jesus' message)? Surely, a God would not force us to say no to what basically is common sense for us to be saved? That's inhumane. He should give us more compelling evidence and then ask us whether we want to be saved by him or not. Otherwise our decision would be more affected by our surroundings.

Disclaimer: I'm not actually sure where I stand on religion. I only recently began to study the Bible. I had never cared for religion before, but I felt that I needed to actually study it before I could dismiss it as absurd. So far, I'm hesitant to call it anywhere as absurd as many make it out to be. There are things that I struggle with, but it's been a very interesting experience.

I can see you are doing a great job :) I never would have thought you were not a convinced believer.