English football supporters are terrible!

[DirtyP2002]

kowenicki said:

DirtyP2002 said:

kowenicki said:

DirtyP2002 said:

kowenicki said:

DirtyP2002 said:
I have the feeling, and correct me when I am wrong, that Greece and Turkey really do have some awesome fans, but just a hand full of club. Panathinaikos / Olympiakos in Greece and the Gala / Fenerbahce in Turkey. While the Ultras are more spread in Germany, except the corporate clubs (Hoffenheim, Leverkusen, Wolfsburg, Ingolstadt and soon Leipzig).

Austria has some good supporters as well.
Anyway, England lost its touch withtheir supporters

Annnnnyyywayyyy

Perhaps this great support can drive a German league team on to actually win something at some point. 

Its been a while.

and that is coming from a liverpool supporter?

Seriously though, ManCity, Chelsea, Arsenal and pretty much every club in England is now pushed by some multi-billionaire somewhere in the east.
ManCity spend 900 million Euro (!!!) in the past years, while German Clubs just don't do that.

Look at Kagawa and ManU. Dortmund paid 350k Euro 2 years ago. ManU paid 16 million to Dortmund now. ManCity has a higher loss than revenue (!!!). Financial FairPlay will hurt some English clubs, if they actually push that through in 2013.

Last won it in 2005, which was the 5th time. Finalists in 2007.

The spending is just how it is. It's life.  If you have seen the incredible plans Man City have for the area of the stadium and the local community you will see how it isn't always just a vanity trip. That club will have huge revenues soon and a stream of young talent.  And you say German clubs just don't do that, you mean can't. If a billionaire walked in then they would take the cash, no question. 

 

Kowe, I really like your financial background and enjoy your threads. I agree with you 99%  of the time. It is cool to disagree with you when it comes to football.

In Germany there is a rule called "50+1". No club is allowed to have an investor that leads a club. 50+1 means that  51% of the club belongs to the members of a club, which are the fans and supporters. That is one reason why you don't see these spendings in Germany. The fams in Germany are well organised and do protests against anyone who wants to cancel this rule.

Cologne:

Bremen

 

Bochum

Hamburg

Nürnberg

Dortmund

 

Hannover wanted to welcome investors, but the 36 professional teams in Germany denied his request to kill the 50+1 rule with 32 : 1 votes! So Germany and the supporters are fighting against it. That is a fight the English supporters lost years ago.

Another point is that the German Bundesliga has VERY high standards when it comes to the financials of a club. The losses Man City made are not sustainable. As a consequence ManCity would be relegated in the 3rd league in Germany. Actually Dortmund was inches away to be relegated in 2005 / 2006, because of their financial situation.

So the German league could have a scenario just like the English league, we are just fighting against it. And for good I must say. The English premier League has a debt of 4 billion Euros (!!!) and loses about 500 million every year. The German Bundesliga has basically no debt. The situation in England just can't be healthy.

If financial fairplay becomes reality in 2013, just like the UEFA said, you will see a turnaround in Europe.

It is nice to have a bit of banter and not agree all the time isnt it...

I agree, it isnt sustainable.  Which is why Man City are doing it the right way, as are Arsenal.  Man City is not just sepnding money on players (like Cehelsea) it is building a legacy that is second to none in the wolrd.  You really should look at their plans, they are incredible. 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-14973122

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-14973123

But other English clubs will cntinue as long as the money keeps rolling in from the huge TV deals they have both domestic and global.  People can say what they want about the standard of the various leagues but the reality is that the Prem generates more revenue than any other by some distance and that gap grows every year.  Twice as much as La Liga and four times as much as the Bundesliga.

This financial fair play thing is a bit of a red herring imo, there are ways around that.  Somehow I dont see Platini saying to Barcelona, Real Madrid, Chelsea and probably Man Unted that they arent allowed in the Champions league.   It would be commercial suicide. Not to mention that it now includes a French team in PSG... he must be panicking at that one. lol.  Barcelona and Real Madrid could never comply with the financial fair play.

This is interesting:

http://www.sportskeeda.com/2012/09/01/5-ways-how-top-epl-clubs-will-easily-comply-with-uefa-financial-fair-play-regulations/

 

Also you do know that the financial fair play has already started dont you?  Not a single Englosi club ahad a problem, amazing isnt it.

Atheltico madrid, Lisbon and Malage had prize money withheld.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/uefa-withholds-prize-money-23-clubs-over-finances-103315265--sow.html

I think FFP is needed but very hard to get it through. There is always the threat that the clubs you mentioned just create their own league and avoid UEFA as an organisation.

IMO there is no alternative to FFP though.

Sure there are ways around FFP (becoming a sponsor that happens to pay 300 million / year is the most common one). 
I know that FFP already started, but the fun starts in the next 2  years, just like your article states.

"Transfer fees and outgoing payments have been monitored since the start of the 2011/12 season with clubs tasked with breaking even in 2012 and 2013 and being assessed during the 2013/14 season."

I am not too optimistic though. Actually I think things got worse with PSG. Think about the situation of a club when the billionaire in the backgorund doesn't want to support the club any longer or just can't support it.

Man City has ambitous projects, but it won't be a profitable venture in the next 10 years.