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badgenome said:
richardhutnik said:

The thing is, you operate under presumptions of magic that somehow no restraints and anyt demands put on others (these things called collective responsibilties) will magically alone end up making everything work out just fine.

It's not magic, and it's not perfect, but the free market system has been proven to be the best thing going. It has lifted more people out of poverty than any system around. That is simply a fact. You operate under this silly notion that what makes for a good politician is that they care the most, or at least profess to. There will always be poor people, but it's funny that there are a lot more of them under Obama, who supposedly cares soooooo very much about them. What about tomorrow's people? How is it anything short of a moral outrage to finance your great, all-loving, all-caring welfare state on their backs, stealing from tomorrow so people can live beyond their means today? But I suppose it serves all those little bastards right for the crime of... not being born yet. Do you care about them, or do you just care that you get yours?

As for Paul Ryan, I'm not going to answer for someone else. Fuck if I know or care what he thinks. But between their love of debt-financed welfarism and their pathological abortion fetishism and their willingness to let the public education system fail to teach kids how to fish year after year after year just to avoid making the teachers unions angry, the Democrats have no business pretending to care more about teh childrenz than those mean, old Republicans.

There is a portion of Republicans, and conservatives, who take issue with the concept that the free market will magically end up taking care of everything.  Individuals like Mike Huckabee, who have been governors, had to deal with issues and support having a welfare system of some sort, but making it work.  It isn't just gut the safety net and hope for the best.  

As for there being more poor people now, DUH!  When an economy tanks, there are more poor people.  That happens.  It doesn't mean, however, that a society that consists of a free market and the only values it has is that of the market, is going to end up teaching anyone to fish.  And a market driven by people who end up believing you fire bad customers (this is a business principle by the way), is going to end up having more people fishing sufficiently.  It just doesn't happen.  Cutting welfare benefits merely cuts the budget.  It doesn't make the people on it suddenly get benefits.

And if you want to ask me my views, I don't have issue with government welfare, per-se, if that is how a society decides to help the disadvantaged.  I also don't have issues with it sufficiently doing things on a private level.  What I do have issue is with individuals who don't even bother to think these matter, and just claim  some sort of neglect as being a magic solution to resolve things, or who end up making the helping the poor as some sort of mark of moral superiority and focused on the giver.