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Veknoid_Outcast on 25 September 2012
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happydolphin said:
RolStoppable said:

I'd rather keep everything in this thread than take it to PMs. I couldn't open the second PM you sent me (probably because you didn't put any letters into the subject), so I couldn't read more than the three lines that were displayed in the inbox.

If it comes to deciding between the PS3 and 360, then first party games aren't the only factor. Which console do my friends own, do I have to pay for online, how reliable is the console, all these things can and will factor into the decision. Nevertheless, if it's third party multiplatform games that make people think about purchasing these systems in the first place (looking at sales charts, that seems to be the case more often than not), then it's more important for Nintendo to get these multiplatform games than making their own Uncharted.

Regarding leading by example, the Wii was never meant to sell. The difference between third party shooters on the 360 and third party casual titles on the Wii is that the former get put effort into them while the latter are cash grabs for the most part. If Nintendo had only made Super Mario Galaxies, then third parties wouldn't have provided quality content either. It simply didn't matter what Nintendo did, because for the most part third parties had no intentions to develop quality software for the Wii. The range of games that Nintendo made in the NES and SNES eras isn't different from the games they made on the Wii. But back then third parties put effort into their games for Nintendo platforms. Also, Nintendo themselves didn't have to make JRPGs and fighting games to get Final Fantasy and Street Fighter. Nowadays they don't have to either. Just like back then it is up to third parties to make these games.

The reason why I think that kiddy quality games are rare is because they are rare. If you exclude Nintendo, then what is left? Rayman, Sonic and maybe a few others? Meanwhile the market drowns in M- and T-rated games, even though these games are catering to a smaller segment. So I'd rather see Nintendo making "pure shit" like Kirby's Epic Yarn, because it means that I have a game to play.

Look at the Wii U launch lineup: On one hand you have Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, Mass Effect, Batman, Darksiders and ZombiU, on the other hand you have NSMB, Pikmin, Rayman, Wii Fit and Nintendo Land. If third parties decide to put quality games on the Wii U, it's guaranteed that they will mostly belong into the former category, so Nintendo putting even more money into this segment is a waste of resources that could be spent on catering to people who are underserved by the current direction of third parties. It's sufficient if Nintendo keeps making Zelda, Metroid and JRPGs at the rate they have done in the last years, if they have third parties on board. And if Nintendo doesn't have third parties on board, then they will run into problems to get to 150m regardless of how many non-kiddy games they make, because lacking the vast majority of good third party games will make the platform feel incomplete to potential customers.

Music to my ears, someone that actually makes sense from the other side of the debate.

There is one thing you didn't factor into the equation, and it's the Sony factor that makes games like UC and SotC stand out in comparison with the 3rd party WiiU launch games you mentioned. Maybe it's just a case of "the grass is always greener on the other side of the lawn", maybe it's the word of mouth, maybe it's just my personal taste, but in my opinion some games are very difficult to rival, so much so that they are in another league. So is my opinion of the Sony games I mentioned in OP. However, I do believe Zelda and Metroid, at their very best, do rival those games adequately. Mind you, I have not seen that very best since at least Prime 1, OoT, and before that. So even there Nintendo has begun to lack imho.

As for Kirby's Epic Yarn, I played the demo and just watched a good 30 minutes of gameplay, and I have played better kiddy games, with funner gameplay and much more interesting themes than that. I am not like you that I can shut off the theme of a game to enjoy the gameplay, I find that very challenging, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. And I love Kirby's Dreamland and Kirby's Adventure. The music isn't as good and the gameplay not as fun. The concept is neat though.

The WiiU strategy is not fail-proof. It will be missing the lion's share of exclusives in the category of darker games aimed at the segment unless something is done right to fix that. Also, apart from the AAA multi-plats in your post, many 3rd party multi-plat games lack depth. For instance many are pure violence and lack the depth and emotion of the games mentioned in OP. Having only those is not enough.

If Nintendo was able to follow through with your advice and also RolStoppable's advice, they would make a pretty legendary system.

The problem is that I don't think we'll ever have a super console like we did with SNES and PS2, the two best consoles of any generation in my opinion.

The SNES was born at the perfect time. New 16-bit graphics and new ideas pushed Nintendo IPs to never-before-seen heights. Super Mario World, Super Metroid, A Link to the Past, Donkey Kong Country, etc. You could easily make a case for these being the best installments of their respective franchises.

Then there was third-party support. Final Fantasy II went a long way toward introducing dramatic storytelling into RPGs, and then Final Fantasy III perfected the formula. Add a host of other RPGs, racing games, fighting games, platform games, sports games, simulation, strategy, you name it.

And PS2 was just a perfect storm. The Playstation brand was super strong after PS1 won the fifth generation, and all the big third-party games landed on it. Grand Theft Auto, Gran Turismo, Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid, Kingdom Hearts, God of War, the list goes on. Plus it had backwards compatability, DVD playback, etc.

I just don't see something like that ever happening again. I do believe the Wii U will be closer to the SNES than the Gamecube or Wii, but I can't imagine it will ever rank among the SNES and PS2. Even if it does a good job copying what Sony did right.