Jesus Christ of Nazareth loves you!

[DaRev]

Scoobes said:

DaRev said:

@ Bolded 1

How do you find something is irrelivant if you from the outset have absolutly no regard for it? Let's stick with the rape issue. The underlying and ultimate purpose of that rule in the Bible was to protect the victim/women. Are saying then that that underlying principle, i.e. protecting the victim/woman, is irrelivant today?

Nothing predates the historical accounts of the bible, especially the new testiment. Many civilisations, Jewish and even Muslim, today confirm the authentisity of the Bible. To say that anything predates the accounts of the Bible just says that you have no idea of Biblical civilisations and how their traditions and culture were preserved throught time. You cannot go comparing biblical HISTORY to a bards tales. Next thing you'll be telling me is that Moses and the Isrealites were never in Egypt! Did the Romans ever occupy Israel and hence Crucify Jesus, or was that just another biblical wise tale that Christians love to tell?

 

@ Bolded 2

Maybe we do agree here. But I believe that we got or moral rules from God. Listen friend, you cannot give account for any man, so if someone wants to use the bible for evil works then he will one day have to answer to God. You just need to live a life that is pleasing to God. And I will leave you with this from the Bible, Pslams 37: 

  Fret not thyself because of evildoers, neither be thou envious against the workers of iniquity.

² For they shall soon be cut down like the grass, and wither as the green herb.

³ Trust in the Lord, and do good; so shalt thou dwell in the land, and verily thou shalt be fed.

⁴ Delight thyself also in the Lord: and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.

⁵ Commit thy way unto the Lord; trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass.

⁶ And he shall bring forth thy righteousness as the light, and thy judgment as the noonday.

⁷ Rest in the Lord, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass.

⁸ Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise to do evil.

⁹ For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the Lord, they shall inherit the earth.

¹⁰ For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.

¹¹ But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

@ 1

On the rape issue, the purpose was to protect the woman? Then it failed miserably. The woman had a choice of financial stability and emotional torture, or both emotional torture and financial instability (and possible suicide).  All it says to me is that the rather human culture back then was brutal, misguided and immoral by todays standards. If god was seriously trying to give moral guidance then why have human views on morality changed so greatly over time? (slaves, rape, homosexuality etc.)

The bible is only a single source. You can't look at history through a single source just because some people hold it as sacred. It was still written by human beings. Do you honestly think the bible (let alone the new testament... you realise the old testament is older right?) predates all the ancient civilisations that existed and all the archaelogical evidence we have for said civilisations?

http://www.magickalshadow.com/gilgamesh.html

The Epic of Gilgamesh is dated around 2100 BC, the incredibly similar Noah's Ark story appeared around 1300-1200 BC. It's quite possible the story was passed down either through word of mouth, written tablets or both. That's not even mentioning the large body of evidence we have for the Ancient civilisations of the near-east for which we have accounts starting from around 3300 BC. The magnificent ancient Egyptian pyramids are dated to have been built during the Old Kingdom (2686-2182 BC, the Great Pyramid was built around 2600 BC). Stonehenge was completed in 2200 BC. The story of Moses on Mount Sinai is calculated to have occured between 1312 -1280 BC. I think a lot of human history predates the bible, or are the Egyptian pyramids bards stories too?

That's without going into how the texts in the New Testament were collated by a group of Eastern Romans in 325 AD who chose what to include and what to ignore/claim as heretical. So humans, corruptable, fallible humans decided what to include in the New Testament 325 years after Christ. How much did culture, politics and personal preferences influence which gospels and writings to include and which to burn? How do you know that those texts that were discarded were truly heretical and not the true teachings of Jesus considering it was a group of men that decided this? Just today a piece of papyrus was revealed describing how Jesus supposedly had a wife:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19645273

So the material in the bible is, from a historical perspective, only a single piece of evidence in a growing database of artifacts, scrolls and tablets. Biblical canon and true history aren't the same thing.

@ 2

If god gave morals to man then what's happened with clinical sociopaths who are incapable of feeling empathy for others? Your morals come from a mix of genetics and your upbringing. You were raised to believe in the morals of the bible, but what about kids who are raised by racist and homophobic parents who use the contents of the bible to preach hate? Their morals are shaped by the people who raise them and are influenced by the people around them.

Morality isn't static, it changes depending on the culture/society you live in and the people you have around you. Its also shaped by your genes, especially in the case of sociopaths.

Sorry for the late response.

@1

Yes God protected the woman and God's way of doing that is still very relevent today. it appears to me that you have no concept of how life was back then, or is even today in some cultures.  As I mentioned before God's rules then and now, and long after your bones have turned to dust will be (1) Love God, and (2) Love your fellow man. So, how is that not relivant today? With regards rape, if you love your fellow man, you wouldn't go around raping people or hurting them in any way. That is Gods rule, so how is that not relivant today?

My bible begins with 'In the Beginning', now I don't know when your other historical ccounts start but mine/the bible starts from the beginning. Consider for example the geneology of Jesus, which in those days geneologys were maticulously recorded by the Jews. Whole sections of the Bible are dedicated to geneology of the Jews, and the need to record this as Historical fact. So consider how they recorded the geneology of Jesus:

Jesus, ^(A)when he began his ministry, was about ^(B)thirty years of age, being ^(C)the son (as was supposed) of Joseph, the son of Heli, ²⁴ the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melchi, the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph, ²⁵ the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos, the son of Nahum, the son of Esli, the son of Naggai, ²⁶ the son of Maath, the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein, the son of Josech, the son of Joda, ²⁷ the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa, ^(D)the son of Zerubbabel, the son ^(E)of Shealtiel,^[a] the son of Neri, ²⁸ the son of Melchi, the son of Addi, the son of Cosam, the son of Elmadam, the son of Er, ²⁹ the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, ³⁰ the son of Simeon, the son of Judah, the son of Joseph, the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim, ³¹ the son of Melea, the son of Menna, the son of Mattatha, the son of ^(F)Nathan, the son of David, ^32 (G)the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Boaz, the son of Sala, the son of Nahshon, ³³ the son of Amminadab, the son of Admin, the son of Arni, the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah, ^34 (H)the son of Jacob, ^(I)the son of Isaac, ^(J)the son of Abraham, ^(K)the son of Terah, the son of Nahor, ³⁵ the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg, the son of Eber, the son of Shelah, ³⁶ the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech, ³⁷ the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalaleel, the son of Cainan, ³⁸ the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.

So this is just one example of how the History in the Bible goes back further than anything MAN by himself, as oppse to GOD through man, has recorded. So while I agree that the Bible is not THE ONLY source, it is most certainly the MOST AUTHRITATIVE source of such historical events.

So your trying to tell me that if other historical sourcse talk about stuff like ancient Eygypt and the Pyramids you can believe them, but when the Bible talks about the same stuff but adds characters like Moses and before him Joseph, you cannot believe the Bible?

@2

Agreed, but regardless of whose morals a person was raised on. It doesn't negate the fact that God's morals exist, i.e. (1) Love God, and (2) Love you fellow man. So my friend, if someone wants to go out there and kill, rape, steal or whatever, such doesn't mean that there is no God.

And God might agree with your last statement as well, because the Bible says that we're all sinners, no man is 'good'. Jesus even said to one man, don't call me/Jesus good, for only God is good. In principle, we're all in the same boat friend, so don't think that you or I are any better than the sociopaths, killers, or rapists, because we all have the propensity to do evil, ultimately this is why we all need God.

You know, you sound like you would make a good Christian my friend.