setsunatenshi said:
ninetailschris said:
setsunatenshi said:
ninetailschris said:
setsunatenshi said:
richardhutnik said:
pezus said:
richardhutnik said:
pezus said:
"Deuteronomy 22:28-29
28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels[a] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives."
Did you miss this? |
In that culture he gained the legal obligation to take care of her. He had to treat her as a wife, if he went and did that. If you are going to comment on this, and put it out there, do you care to show what it was like in that culture and comment on what happened to a woman who was made to no longer be a virgin? Please feel free to, since that verse interests you so much.
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I took it from Jay, who found it. Why did you and ninetails not comment on it when he put it forth? This makes one wonder whether the Bible is not just horribly outdated.
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Anyone attempting to apply Old Testament laws, without understanding historical context is asking for trouble. From a Christian perspective, it would be suggested HIGHLY that Old Testament texts are viewed through what the New Testament says.
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That kind of proves the point that this god character didn't really create humans, humans have created this god. And 'his' oppinions seem to always reflect the morals and oppinions of the society that creates it.
In the example above if instead treating the woman as damaged good this god character would say 'if you rape a woman you shall be punished. a woman who was raped is no less than she was before. virginity is not a quality in which you should value someone as a person, instead only take into consideration how well they treat themselves and others'
Now if this god character actually said something to this effect... maybe you could at least have a point for good advice
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" And 'his' oppinions seem to always reflect the morals and oppinions of the society that creates it. "
Or....it could mean they got there way of living from God like the Commmandments. Like what they folloe and interact with. I don't even know how you twisted that into what you said. Because obvivious if you do some looking into how these people lived they lived exactly how they were told to live by God.
"In the example above if instead treating the woman as damaged good this god character would say 'if you rape a woman you shall be punished. a woman who was raped is no less than she was before. virginity is not a quality in which you should value someone as a person, instead only take into consideration how well they treat themselves and others'"
So, you want to him to say something that he goes in to contradiction to what he says for you feel happy? That would go against everything he says to say virginity is important because seperate us from some common dog on street humping anyone dog. The reason for virginity being quality is it's suppose to sarcred between man and woman in commintment to God in marriage. This suppose to be taken very seriously even though you think it is. "consideration how well they treat themselves and others" Um why because that makes you feel good? There steps to make marriage a contact between two genders to become one with God. It's not about do what every you feel like because it's meaningless then. Hell I could say have sex with children as along as treat yourselfs and others good. It's just your own personal opinion on something which has nothing to with the point.
"Now if this god character actually said something to this effect... maybe you could at least have a point for good advice"
Again why because it makes you feel good? You gave no reason but I want God to act the way i want him to and not like God. You using a entitlement argument where you think God is entitled to think like you who would be vasing inferior to a mind of God. It's like rat trying to tell me advise on how to be a man you don't understand percent of God knows yet you can teach him something? It's a circular argument.
Just because God doesn't do what you think doesn't make him God it just make you seem to believe to know more then you actually do.
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The problem is, I'm more moral than your god.
It was pretty disgusting seeing you implying that a woman losig her virginity means she's broke. You can damn well be sure that doesn't make me feel good.
But like I said before, it's really heart warming seeing religions strugling so much nowadays compared to any time in the past. The power of science is pushing the religions further into a corner and I'd be surprised if by the next turn of the century religion in the advanced world won't be something studied in a history class.
tic-toc-tic-toc...
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1 sentence. One that is a subjective opinion it's like me saying blue is better than red. Your own moral system is based on your personal desires and thoughts not based on objective terms.
"It was pretty disgusting seeing you implying that a woman losig her virginity means she's broke. You can damn well be sure that doesn't make me feel good."
That's how rules are because sex is suppose to be sacred thing be for the God and the couple. This prevents sexual dieases and makes marriage more important. If you thing sex is for just pleasing yourself and you like that fact there men today have children and leave there wifes with no support. But again the most important is that sex is giving meaning with marriage. If your some type one night stand guy you will never understand this because you're animal and not human/man. If you just threw your body in that time that was considered not honorable and showed you had no self-respect/control. The society was the exact opposite of the societies nearby where you had child riturals,animal sex, and lot's corruption. The law also helped it from having woman become posititutes and sex slaves.
Did people in that time had to worry about sexual disease? No.
Did they have to worry about people cheating? No, if they did they would be punished so people rarely did it, unlike today where you have millions.
Did this indirectly advertise safe-sex? YES!
Did this prevent from woman having babies with some random stranger? YES
Did this teach self-control and later rewards from doing so? Yes, look at what happens when after getting married the woman you suppose to treated with respect and giving happiness for a whole MONTH. The guy can't even work doing this because he must treat his wife with happiness.
Did this strengthen family structure? Yes, because no one had to worry would there child would have sex with a man and ruin the family with money problems. The women were CLASSIER because of this. You wouldn't hear about how cool it was to have sex with 5 men.
Did this prevent marjority of kids from making bad decisions that could ruin there lives? Yes.
Now please tell why this was bad? The woman did a crime to herself, to God, her family or anyone else if she did something as careless as that. If she is raped then obviously like I stated eariler they solve the problem without punishing her because she didn't do anything. This was all taken very seriously they all agreed to never break this rules like any law.
No one at the time would even consider dating a woman like that because she already is telling everyone I don't care about what society says I will do my own thing. I don't care about my parents or God I know more than them. But guess what? Society isn't going to want to accept someone like that because there to busy trying to survival. By not following these laws you are already telling people all they need to know and therefor God doesn't even need to say anything becasue to people themselfs will be disgusted. Self-control and thinking about your society must be shown to want to continue in the society.
The fact is the society was better of because of the law than the opposite.
Good luck arguing against this because I know you will avoid it like last time.
"But like I said before, it's really heart warming seeing religions strugling so much nowadays compared to any time in the past. The power of science is pushing the religions further into a corner and I'd be surprised if by the next turn of the century religion in the advanced world won't be something studied in a history class."
Science and Christian goes as far back as Newton Isacc and the apple and even he believed in God and Science. Fast forward to today we see people who study evolution to how the world started and are Christians. I wouldn't be greatly surprised if you ever read a book on anything not forced on you from school. Science has never been a enemy of Christian on the fundmentalist believe that and goes for both atheists and Christians.
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in your view having sex is a crime to yourself, to your family and to your magic sky daddy?
if anything this shows exactly how religion can twist and really destroy someone's humanity. i doubt you'll ever understand it, but my point was never to convince you of that. my point was exactly to give you enough rope so you'd display full on how sickening those views are and how much we evolved as a society.
it's ok though... i think i can find a good solution to you. maybe go live in saudi arabia or Uganda. They seem like the kind of societies in today's world whose accepted views seem to be on par with your own.
i'm still fighting to control the vomiting reflex i got from reading your post. the conversation will be over after this, it's enough. i'll reply no more.
tic toc tic toc
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"in your view having sex is a crime to yourself, to your family and to your magic sky daddy? "
One: Learn to read. Safe-sex is what I'm saying and not just having sex for selfish reasons. No where did I say sex is bad because I said marriage and sex is the best way which I gave my case which you couldn't counter. Like I predicted :).
Two: God isn't a sky daddy because .... he isn't in the sky.... only someone is who is uneducated and ignorant you would say he is. Your trolling is failing bad because of your lack of reading ability. For him to be a sky he would have to be a physical enity he isn't that takes up space which he doesn't. Look uo Omnipresent you may educate yourself.
"if anything this shows exactly how religion can twist and really destroy someone's humanity. i doubt you'll ever understand it, but my point was never to convince you of that. my point was exactly to give you enough rope so you'd display full on how sickening those views are and how much we evolved as a society."
You just make claims without backing it up. You basically playing the crybaby card were you cry about how you don't like something but won't defend it because how simple minded it is. If anything YOU are hurting humanity because you don't have the ability to actually defend anything you just cry. You sound like when you talk to gangster about how a police officers are all not bad people but you keep repeating to yourself that there all bad but will ignore all argumentd against it. Your a typical whiner some who complains but doesn't like when someone puts some attention on you. Counter my arguments don't cry behind "oh I don't agree so therefor your wrong". Seems you admit defeat.
"it's ok though... i think i can find a good solution to you. maybe go live in saudi arabia or Uganda. They seem like the kind of societies in today's world whose accepted views seem to be on par with your own."
Are you talking about the laws they have on woman that go directly against Bible? Like sex-slaves which I meation? Plus you just gave a comparision without tell us what your comparing it to? Tell me what you exactly saying are alike without trying to give a vague comparision. Because of I can clearly tell if you tried I would show you are wrong unlike you would probably avoid it....again.
"i'm still fighting to control the vomiting reflex i got from reading your post. the conversation will be over after this, it's enough. i'll reply no more."
Oh.... running away because I countered your points. Seems to me your just obvivously running before I exposed your illogical thinking and weak arguments. Heck you had to avoid my whole argument on how marriage with sex when inforced lead to a better society for them. Your only argument was you just hated the idea and made you mad (I'm crying). Your logic is vomiting words on a page without anything coherence in mind it seems and not discussing anything actually being said.
Save yourself while you can.
