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mrstickball said: It's not you, it's your goverment. As for my source on Chechen deaths, I was citing HRVC's report: http://web.archive.org/web/20070821154629/http://www.hrvc.net/htmls/references.htm Oh boy, I didn't expect more, humar rights activists, who quoting ridiculous Kovalyov :D How the f**k he could know the numbers? There're dozens of HR activista groups and organizations that have reported up to 200k killed. Why these? What're the methodology behind the numbers? Here goes good old Soviet propagandistic poster to illustarte the situation. "Human rights" is written on his glove.
And again these are NOT the sources. Didn't I say not to bring "the guy told other guy that told me" kind of information? For those who missed history classes, there're three kinds of work: 1) actual sources; 2) statistical research including methodology and stuff based on the sources; 3) analysis that uses statistical researches. From the first group there's only ONE source akin to Chechen conflict - MVD, from second ther're multiple works like Krivosheev or Ryazantsev. There're shitload of workd from the 3rd category, most of them is yellowish iditotism you've quoted. I'm asking for SOURCES. The Russians themselves reported at least 50,000 civilian deaths. Your own Leiutenant-General, Aleksander Lebed cited around 80,000 dead. Those aren't just random people, or "Some guy", they're your own military officials. Every independent study has pegged deaths betwen 50,000 - 100,000. Only Kuvilov's report came in lower, at 20,000, which has been criticized by every possible agency. Not Russians, but Lebed, who ran an electional campaign at the time, so he could have said anything to suppoprt that. You know, just like most of yours political BS spitters. OMG a politician blowing numbers out of proportion! BTW I could name a few more that did the same thing - Yavlinski and Maskhadov, see the article below - it has it all, including other generals who quote drastically different numbers. Here more elaborate information from actual scientific journal that deals with demographics: This one happens to quote MVD numbers who actually run investigation in 1995 and received following numbers - 26k dead, out of which 9-14k are civilians. This's as official as you can get. As for your Syrian numbers, they are bollocks, yet another HR group I pressume? Bosnian War numbers are more or less in line with what I have, though consider the bigger scale of a conflict that encompassed bigger territories with larger population, that counted only military deaths more than all deaths in two Chechen campaigns combined. For god sakes even tiny Kosovo is two times bigger than Chechnya. As for Chechen population: Grozny had 450,000 people in 1989. Today, its 250,000. Care to cite a census that has pre-war Chechnya at 1 million people? Everything I can find puts it a bit higher - likely closer to 7-8% of people dying in the 1st Chechen war, not 10%. Total population of ChIASSR in 1989 as per last USSR census is 1 275 513, out of which ~900k is Chechnya. Again you can't be more official than that :D |
And again didn't prof.Preobrazhensky give you free advice not to read Soviet newspapers before lunch? Or the metaphor wasn't clear enough for you? Why bother if you have limited access to the information, looking by how HR activists is the last instance of truth for you I conclude that you're being desperate :D
