Anti-Japan protests in China spread.

[mrstickball]

mai said:

Hi again, mrstickball,

Here goes disproving some of your BS if you're still interested.

mrstickball said:

Chechnya wanted independence like the other former Soviet states. They did not sign the Federation Treaty, and Russia did not honor that.

This one is formalistic, but still. They never were Soviet state in the first place.

This one is essential. No, independence isn't the reason for war. This is a childish point of view, as childish as, say, consider American Civil War was started in order to "free slaves".

Instead, the Russians invaded Grozny and killed tens of thousands of civilians in the 1st Chechen War. You can say whatever you like, but Russia put troops in a state that wanted to become a soverign entity. Up to 100,000 civilians died in the 1st conflict - almost as many as the Iraq war.

This one probably the most idiotic. I don't even need bring up data to disprove this one. 100k is almost 10% of population of the region, it's big enough to be seen on demographics charts (100k killed means shitload of refugees and big dive on demographic chart), which it isn't. Do you even understand that in order to kill that many you'd need an actual death camp?

Check Tutsi genocide in Rwanda in 1994 for example, there you might see how huge the impact of killing of 10% population is, and don't bother with this silliness further.

South Ossetia? Russia rolls in tanks within a few hours of Georgia attacking the rebels. They then proceed to destroy as much of the Georgian military as fast as possible. Why was Russia so ready and willing to attack a former state?

What South Ossetia? It' part of Russian Federation now? What this has to do with initial point Kaz has made?

Why were they mobilized and ready to send their mechanized troops at the drop of a hat? Furthermore, when the Georgians pulled out of South Ossetia, the Russians came in and have more or less annexed the area, by giving their civilians dual-citizenship with Russia.

The scale of operation from both sides is tens of thousands involved not counting insurgents. Do you really think military intelligence would miss such an obvious preparations for a war and army won't react "just in case"? Well, then you just know nothing about how army functions. And how exactly you want us to react when foreign army is killing our peackeepers serving there under UN mandate? I'd imagine if Mexico would have pulled such a stunt it'd have been nuked already, lol.

Dual citizenship is widespread on entire territory of ex-USSR, not counting gastarbeiters from Ukraine and Central Asia. It far predates this war.

In the Ukraine, you have the poisoning of anti-Russian presidential candidate (when he was candidate), Viktor Yushchenko. Many point to external influences on that, because he wasn't the Russian-backed favorite.

Err, too much espionage movies, I guess? AFAIR investigation in Ukraine hasn't come to conclusion of blaiming Russian special service for posioning Yuschenko. On what exactly you're basing your accusations? I'm not sure what we might have achieved with killing of Yuschenko? Ukraine merging with Russia, lol? Well, current Yanukovich is considered pro-Russian, did they merge? No. If merging is not the case, then I'm not sure why your brought this case up.

In fact you're very inconsistent here. Onland operation in Lybia is no-no, though there're multiple evidence to it, but Yuschenko was poisoned this's obviously a hand of Kremlin?

Well, in the end. What I see is just you being desperate and trying various accusations, half of which do not even has anything to do with the point Kaz has raised. We're the worst - this's what you're trying to say to me, right? Well, I kinda get used to this already :D Nothing new here. If I'd return a favor in a similar way I might need to write a f**king novel then.

So much to standing up to my BS :D Ironic.

1. So you're saying that no state should be granted freedom if it wants it? Just because Chechnya wasn't a state that merged with the USSR doesn't mean it shouldn't of been granted freedom. In the US, if a state such as Texas wanted to ceede, I would think that most Americans would be OK with that, and would deplore the idea of sending federal troops in there to quell those that wanted freedom. Do you really think massacring people in Checnya was okay?

2. To kill 100,000 civilians, you don't need a death camp. Look at the Bosnian civil war: 100,000 killed in 2 years. The Syrian civil war is at 30,000 killed and growing. 130,000 have died in Iraq thus far. 40% of the Chechen civilians were displaced during the war. Care to give any actual sources that say far less people died in the fighting? Every source I find has casualties between 50,000 - 100,000. Furthermore, at 100,000 people, that isn't 10% of the population.