DaRev said:
OK, but if that is your final answer, sorry to tell you this, but I think you are going to hell. Because the 'maker', as I know him, said so and I can show you where he said so. Now, what you can do to refute that, is prove to me why you think you're not going to hell or that there is no hell - did the stars and atoms you believe in tell you this? if so, show me where, did they write it down? |
I don't want to offend you, but this was hilarious, specially if it's genuine. Enough to leave my lurking position.
Also, I'm not clear on your position on atoms, but if atmos aren't real (or more precisely a very good aproximation in the concerning scope, which is as about "truhfull" as anything can get in science), than even basic eletronics, let alone computers, are the culmination of an amazingly huge pile of unbelievable guesswork. I like my chances of having millions of people believing for centuries in something I made up much, much better. Your position about both hell and atoms being beliefs of the same nature is just absurd.
Also, it's the one with the claim who has to provide evidence. The Bibble tells you Hell is real. You believe The Bibble for some reason. Why is that? Upbringing? Because God told you so?
Which brings me to the more interesting:
| richardhutnik said: As far as knowing something is correct, that is the rabbit hole that runs REALLY deep and leads into a reason why asking God for signs is an absurd proposition, that really doesn't get anywhere. For me, a big question would be: What would be the expected manifestations of someone who is a real Christian, and how can you tell them apart from those who aren't? I ask: Do real Christians glow in the dark? Understand that second meaning. I also have to ponder, exactly WHAT would one expect to have as an outcome from connecting with God in a real way. Are Christians to be happy for no reason, for example? Look at the book of Job where Satan asks God if Job does good for no reason. That is a trap. I see it as a trap question fitting into Proverbs where there is a prayer which asks God to have enough to not steal, but not so much as to forget God. The short of it, the middle path between sin and Godlessness. And yes, that may be a possibility. Pardon my ramblings here. These are just tough issues I deal with in my own life. I also think the right answer would end up answering the questions of signs. |
Now this is really an issue. If some supernatural entity tries to prove me it's God (or any other "know" entity), why should I believe it? Why couldn't it be a Djin or a demon or something impersonathing it? I mean, I can see religious people saying the real entity wouldn't allow that, but that means you already believe in the existence of the "real" entity and lots of other doctrines about the universe and the supernatural, which makes the whole exercise pointless.
So yeah, in my opinion asking for signs from the perspective of someone who doesn't already believe something can only ever have the effect of showing you that some kind of thing with superpowers exists, but it could never show it's true intentions or nature. It couldn't even give you much in the way of a minimun given extent of it's superpowers since it could be all mind tricks.
Of course this all stays true if the "signal" is just a feeling or something metaphorical.
Also, if something with the ability to bend reality at will exists but can't know it's true intentions or personality than you have absulutely no reason believe anything at all, which makes everything pretty meaningless.
So all in all, yeah, I don't see how asking for a sign would help.
Sorry for the possibly bad structure, I had to type in a hurry.
