| -CraZed- said: 1. Here are some incidents from around the world (many of teh countries have much strciter gun laws than the US): 2011 Anders Breivik went on a rampage that left 77 dead in Norway (some of the toughest gun laws anywhere) |
And yet, he obtained his guns legally.
| -CraZed- said: 2009 17-year-old Tim Kretschmer walked into a German elementary school and killed 15 people |
He also used weapons that were legally obtained.
And the same is probably true for many other of the cases you mentioned, those are just two cases that I know for sure.
Here in Germany we have rather strict gun laws as well. But of course there are illegal weapons - estimates are that 60-66% of all guns in Germany are illegal. When over here guns are used in crimes, the vast majority of them are illegal.
And yet, for some bizarre reason, whenever we had a huge rampage killing over here (and unfortunately we've had quite a few in the last decade or so), the killers were always using legally obtained guns. Because in practice, even the strictest gun law usually makes exceptions for people in gun clubs. And it's usually these people and their relatives who do rampage killings. (The most common case is actually the son of some guy in a gun club who knows how to open daddy's gun closet).
So all your arguments about people being able to obtain guns illegally sound very plausible in theory, but in my opinion practice shows that gun laws do make a difference. I personally believe that the law-abiding citizen is an illusion, because given the "right" circumstances, everyone can freak out. And when that happens, they better don't have a gun around. And especially if so far you've been normal, law-abiding person, chances are you don't quite really know how to quickly obtain guns illegally, it will be a kind of barrier.
Maybe it's different in the US, maybe it's really ridiculously easy over there for just everyone to buy illegal machine guns. But if, boy, am I glad not to live over there.
