Kasz216 said:
I don't understand your point above. Though I think you seem to misunderstand. Which is that basically nobody hasn't passed the first two stages mentioned in Kohlbergs work. Outside of like... Sociopaths and the mentally retarded. Depedning on your theorist. Some argue that the 3rd and 4th stages are blown past by adults as well. Can't remember which group Kohlberg was in... and am starting to think that this was his view and that the "most people don't reach 5/6" was a later addition to his view though... been a while since I went back to my degree information... because well most of psychology annoys me. Regardless the point is... People according to Kohlberg get past the first two stages at like... 10 years old or so. (Doing this from memory.)
Your argument is clumsy because essnetially according to Kohlberg's work... EVERY position can be held no matter your level of moral reasoning. It's perfectly reasonable to be at the 5th stage level and be against gay marraige. The general argument made tends to be that Homosexuality is immoral, slippery slope yadda yadda... I'd rather not go into it because I don't believe it... It's pure fifth level reasoning though. |
Maybe you're not very good at following the argument?
First post: "Take from this what you want. I take it that, not all christians, but a good number of them have been socially and morally stunted."
Your latest post: "I don't understand your point above. Though I think you seem to misunderstand. Which is that basically nobody hasn't passed the first two stages mentioned in Kohlbergs work. Outside of like... Sociopaths and the mentally retarded."
I specifically said that I believe that christianity is too easily misguided and detrimental since it is a human system. Religion is great for humanity, it does many great things, but specifically Christianity is a bit too superficial and vague.
I am a believer in the concept that experience engenders understanding, not rules. And good behavior at any point, especially one that is fundamentally raised on the proposition of reward is something I completely disagree with.
But again, you are twisting my words. I never said that 5th level morality couldn't hold ideas founded in the first. Your understanding of my argument is based on your experiences with people. My family is extremely religious. I was raised by nearly 4 congregations, concurrently. One Catholic school and church on Sunday afternoon. A Christian youth church sunday mornings. And an alternating evangelist and large christian congregation saturday/friday nights. I have met thousands of Christians, and still talk to many because if there's one thing Christians like to do is be up in people's business. The most resounding and unified voice I've heard from these people regarding nearly all issues, is "you're going to go to hell if you do this". There is very little "this is what is morally right for the people" because that question engenders doubt. It's a question that asks more questions about beliefs and questions "god's will".
The only religious people who have ever seemed to be sage and wise to me were the very old lifetime christians. Late 50's and on. And those have nearly always told me that being good isn't about following commandments and praying and everything, it's about trying and wanting to be good and doing what you think is right despite the rules. This is the kind of understanding that only comes from a lifetime of experience with admitting being wrong. This is an attitude that I consider to be high level morality.
I believe the entire concept of religion betrays this, BUT is displaced by the positives it affords, like hope, drive, love, etc.
Oh and PS, don't stick with the one thought of "hurr christians never pass stage 2". It is a flexible scale, but I believe them to be on the lower end on average.
