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Soleron said:
Kasz216 said:
Soleron said:

I do challenge anyone who wants smaller government to say exactly what should be cut and what should replace it.

There is more but off the top of my head?

1) Most welfare programs should be cut and replaced with a negative income tax.  This would allow us to spend less, while giving more money directly too the poor, and to all the poor who need it rather then those who fit specific criteria through a giant windign bueracracy... and who need it... if they are quick enough.

Is not reducing the function of government. You still want them to do welfare. Therefore, they will find some way to be as inefficient as now and employ just as many people to administrate a negative income tax, because the list of exceptions and extras and small adjustments will multiply just as it has for the tax code before.

2) Farm and Food subsidies should be cut, and replaced with..... nothing.  So we stop paying taxes to make are food cause more to support giant agriculture buisnsses who make their money off of exploiting the poor and illegal immigrents  loophole in minium wage.

OK given.

3) The department of education should mostly be cut.  It should mostly just send checks to the states.  Let each state be responsible for what it teaches, competitiveness will make sure that most states teach the right things.  Strict government standards just seem to add a stiffness to the system and leads to teachers teaching students how to pass a test, rather then teaching them to learn.

State run; federal run; whatever. All the same thing, it's government service and the number employed by the state won't go down. Basically a big renaming.

4) The overseas military budget should be cut.  We don't need military bases all over the world, and defenititly not in germany and Japan.  This should be replaced with... nothing.   The military in general should be downsized, EXCEPT for military research.  To have an extremly modern small military should be the goal... plus military technology sales are good buisiness.

Given, but... politically impossible. NO politician will admit to wanting to cut overseas military capability, ever.

5)  Greatly reform student loans.  The way they work now they do way more harm then good for most students.  Stop making student loans unconditinal and instead tie them to academic factors and fields that have high rates of employment..  

Not a question of government size really.

In otherwords, don't give the person with a straigth C average a student loan to get a communications degree... funnel them into a degree that will likely land them a job so they can pay them back, since you can't go bankrupt on student loans.  If they aren't likely to get a job anywhere... don't set them up for failure AND huge unavoidable debt.

6)  Replace Social Security.  Instead of it being invested in government bonds... have the excess money be invested in NON-goverment bonds and stocks.  This will bring far greater benefits then returns, so on the rare crashes, chances are the fund will still be ahead of where it would be using government bonds... and on the very very unlikely chance it isn't... government can always find a way to bail out senior citizens.  The US I beleive is the only country in the world whose pension system is funded by a bunch of IOUs from the government.

Again, number of people employed not reduced, essential function of government to provide welfare to old not really changed. No effect.

7) Cut the IRS staffing office by removing ALL deductions outside of dependents and lower all tax rates to the average effective tax rate being paid.  Greatly lowers fraud, makes it a lot eaiser for people do their taxes.  More equity in the tax system.

8) End Military spending for other countries.  Doesn't really seem needed.

You're repeating above points.

Note I'm debating you on whether those actions reduce government size, not whether I agree with them. Very little of what you've said is reducing the scope or employment count of government. If you did all of the above I can imagine maybe a 1% cut in employed people?


1) Not really.  All that would be needed staff wise is the IRS... and less then what they have now due to the below.

3)  Yes it will.  Education is already state run, and then there is a huge federal layer on top of that, which does nothing but make vague national standard suggestions and create simple and incredibly stupid standards that deny funding to states and counties that are doing worse and funnel them to other school areas doing better.  Oh and sometimes they take over locally run schools that fail anyway. 

5) Sure it is, this would undoubtly lower the amount of student loans given out.  Lowering government size.

6)  It will lower the amount of taxes needed to fund social security.

8) No i'm not... 4 was about our military spending, bases in other countries.   This one is about the money we send to other countries to fund THEIR militaries.