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richardhutnik on 25 June 2012
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binary solo said:
kain_kusanagi said:
binary solo said:
I agree with her deconverting from atheism, but I find Catholicism in general and the "moral framework" of it in particular to be an odd choice. Christianity as a whole is out of date, Catholicism especially so.


There are two driving forces in the Catholic Church. Faith and tradition. I would say faith can never become out of date. As for Catholic traditions, yes many may seem out of date, but within a generation many may change. For instance right now some priests from another church are being alowed to convert and be Catholic priests even though they are married and have children. It's possible that in the near future this will cause a rift that may alow all Catholic priests to marry. It's a tradition not a law. As for the moral framework of the Catholic Church, it tries to follow Jesus's teachings about forgiveness, love, etc. as openly as possible. But like I said I don't think that goes out of style.

I put priests (ordained clergy in general) and confession into the Catholic "moral framework". Both are very outdated and will never come back into currency. Indeed I'd suggest confession should never have been part of Christianity in the first place. Then there's the contraception thing and divorce. How are those moral doctrines sustainable when a great many Catholics don't abide by them? Heaven and hell are also part of the Christian/Catholic moral framework and they are not sustainable moral concepts, IMO, the way they are envisioned in Christianity.

Love, forgiveness, service, generosity, honesty etc are universal and eternal religious values. But that's a religious moral framework in general, not Christian or Catholic. It's the detailed doctrines of the particular religion / sect that creates the unique moral framework for a given faith.

Watch the video and make sure I got the wording right.  I may of used the wrong words.  

I wouldn't count priests and confessional in moral framework.  I would count them as administrative and relgiious practices coming out of a long time of community doing this.  

My understanding is the practice of forgiveness fits into several areas:

* Having a priest forgive is a replacement from needing a community to collectively forgive.

* They serve as a way to have somone counsel someone for need for feeling they have genuinely forgiven.

The practies remain, because people feel they are needed.  Other Christian religious communities do different things.  Like in the Orthodox church, there is forgiveness Sunday where you meet everyone else in the congregation and ask them for forgiveness.  There is also a communal prayer for forgiveness before taking communion.  Confession is also in the orthodox Church, and usually serves far more the counselling session role.  The Catholic view has a far more legal framework.

In regards to divorce, the Catholic church does annulment.  The basis for an annulment is one where it say the person didn't understand what marriage was about and wanted to have the marriage annulled.  Same effect as a divorce, but the reasoning is different behind it.  Real Christian marriage is supposed to be one until death do you part.  You have a life partner you stay with, and you mutually go through life that way.  People today may not grasp this at all.

Catholic teaching on contraception is that, you allow that, where people don't control when they have sex, and manage it, the end result will be a spike in pregnancies, and an increase in abortions, and other things (like STDs).  Reasoning on society would shift with that becoming more acceptable.  Well, that is exactly what has happened.  Now birth control is a desperate firewall pitched to everyone as a way to stop other things.  But societal problems have gotten more problematic.  Ths sexual revolution resulted in a pandora's box of problems open up, and people less happy with sexuality today actually.

This is a Catholic perspective on things.  Anyone who is Catholic can correct anything I said wrong here, because I am not Catholic.