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richardhutnik on 19 June 2012
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thranx said:
richardhutnik said:

Idea is to effectively address a common problem.  Idea isn't to score some sort of "I am consistent" points on a mythical scoreboard you have in your head, that you could care less if they actually do it.  You only bring up, "well if they like it so much, they should do it!" argument, because you want to try to end an argument by showing they are inconsistent.  There are things in life where, if insufficient numbers participate, it will fail.  So, why should they contribute more, if it doesn't resolve the issue?

If you want to go with something more useful, look at my original proposal.  Have all those who want to see taxes on the rich, have their tax rates raised (aka, liberals) and have those who want to have the tax rates on rich reduced, lowered.  It is the same thing as what you want, but would actually make a difference.  Well, maybe it is a bit too "collective" to you.  Apparently, the idea of more than one individual doing the same thing at the same time is a concept you probably have a hard time grasping.  Life isn't just a bunch of autonomous individuals working in an uncoordinated manner, doing whatever their whims desire.

It is the same as i want. So why don't they do just that. Nothing is stoping them, They do not have to create any law. They can simply choose to pay what they believe they should be paying. If it is such a good idea and liberals really feel that way, they can all collectivly CHOOSE to do so. That is my only gripe. You are trying to take peoples choices away. Why can't you see that. As a collective people can stillCHOOSE to donate can't they. Can't warren buffet say "hey everyone who agrees with me lets donate 30% of our income and show people what a diference it can make." Life isn't a few individuals forcing others to do as they do, is it? Why is individualty and choice so hard for you? Do you think no one would agree with you so you feel the need to force others?

Why shouild anyone contribute, the issues have only gotten worse the more we have contributed to the government. Why not lower taxes for everyone than, we dont seem to be solving the problem anyways. I mean if thats really your attitude, why try at all?

It isn't to be voluntary, because liberals believe it is mandatory.  So, you make it mandatory for them to have it.  You carry out fully the desires of what they want done with the tax code.  To make it voluntary is to end up making it go against what they wish.  This is the collective wishes of liberals, so hold them to it.  

And government IS a few people forcing others to go along with it. The heart of government is legitimized use of force to get people to comply with standards that are seen as acceptable norm.  Conservatives are more likely to want to go to war, to get rogue nations to comply.  Laws are passed to prevent behavior that is seen is objectionable.  Liberals want corporations to play by stricter rules and be regulated, and want people pay what they see as their fair share for the greater good.  Reality is, most people believe, if left to their own devices, they wouldn't shape the world the way they like its, so the idea is to have government to make sure there is sufficient complaince for the greater good.  And all this needs to be paid for, so there needs to be taxes to pay for it.