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Kasz216 on 02 June 2012
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rocketpig said:
SamuelRSmith said:
rocketpig said:

You didn't really think this through, did you? Your "system" would require for the entire government to be scrapped along with the Constitution, which is one of the most successful governing documents written by man. It's over 225 years old and has been amended only 17 times. That's insane and speaks to the power of the document. Not to mention that we already tried your idea. It failed so miserably that it almost destroyed the country before it even got going. Thankfully, the document you seem to think is trash, the Constitution, was written and it basically saved the United States from fracturing into oblivion. I might be going out on a limg here but somehow, I doubt you even know about the Articles of Confederation...


I agree with pretty much all you said in this thread apart from this paragraph. The problem is that, while the Constitution is over 200 years old, and been amended relatively few times, it's just not really listened to, anymore. Neither the executive or the legislature do more than pay lip service to the Constitution, and each party only pulls it out the bag when it supports them... which, for both parties, nowadays, just isn't very often. The Judiciary is okay... but even then, can be iffy. Besides, only a small portion of the laws end up going all the way through to the Supreme Court.

Take the most obvious example, the Patriot Act. This bill is so clearly unconstitutional that the politicians almost don't bother denying it. And yet, it was introduced/sign by the Bush administration, passed through the Congress with strong bipartisan support, and extended by Obama. The Act has been found unconstitutional numerous times in low-level courts. The Feds never appeal these rulings, because they're afraid of higher courts also finding it unconstitutional, and yet the law still exists.

And so you have a Constitution that either allows the Patriot Act, or was powerless to stop it.

You won't get any argument from me that too few in government show the proper respect for the Constitution. I loathe the Patriot Act to my very core and think it's one of the worst things done in government in my lifetime. I hated it when it was proposed and somehow, I think I manage to hate it even more now.

As for responding to my bolded, the Constitution did save the government from fracturing into oblivion. Taken in the context of responding to the (insert derogatory term here) I was talking to in that conversation, the Constitution breathed life back into this country after the Articles of Confederation nearly destroyed it. I was merely pointing out how his brilliant idea of a toothless federal government has already been tried and it nearly destroyed this country before it even got off the ground. That doesn't mean I don't believe in a smaller federal government or that I don't believe in giving more power back to the states. I certainly believe both are a good idea.

But there needs to be a clear, strong entity at the top of any government of states, particularly in matters of defense, civil rights, and protection of individual liberty. I'm sure you already know this, just kind of rambling on because I still can't believe that poster said something so bloody stupid and ignorant of history.

I mean really if we want an example of a toothless federal government in modern times... I'd use Europe as an example.

That's really what the Europeon Union is.

It's the articles of confederation more or less.

Big difference being that the articles of confederation let indivdual states keep there own money... (I think?)