Rath said:
SamuelRSmith said:
Rath said:
Well I exist on the completely opposite side of the economic spectrum from you.
I believe in a strong public sector and a regulated market.
In fact I really don't get the "Free market or serfdom" thing - a truly free market is what leads to essential serfdom. In a completely free market workers do not have rights. While skilled workers will still be treated well the unskilled and semi-skilled workers would be paid well below living wages, have to work extremely long hours and have no recourse in terms of working conditions
In terms of supply and demand, unskilled and semi-skilled workers have a high supply and their 'price' is being kept artificially high by the government. It is only through government intervention and through the intervention of unions (which are protected by the government) that workers rights exist.
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"Free markets" doesn't mean "business-oriented markets". The principles of a free market is very much based on the rights of the individuals. In a free market, individuals have the right to assembly, and so the right to unionize. This right would be protected by the Government. Unions, however, cannot force themselves upon an individual. In many states, you can not legally enter a job without becoming a member of a union, this is an infringement of rights.
I don't understand this notion that businesses will be sticking their workers in the meat grinder if the Government/unions weren't there to protect them. Historically speaking, the USA has had the lowest union participation rate, and the lowest amount of Government intervention. Also, historically speaking, the USA has enjoyed the highest level of worker incomes and other compensations.
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Yes but the government limits how a company can deal with unions. It is not legal, for example, to fire employees for belonging to a union, nor is it legal to fire employees on strike. Or at least I think that's the case, I'm not an expert on US employement law =P
The reason employement laws have passed is purely because of historic abuse by corporations of workers. They hired child workers, child labour laws were passed. They paid ridiculously low amounts of money, minimum wage laws were passed. They abused the inequality of bargaining power between employer and employee, union laws were passed. They fired at whim, laws on unfair dismissal were passed. They worked people for ridiculously long hours, maximum working hours were passed. They worked in unsafe or unhealthy conditions, health and safety laws were passed.
Historically everything was done in reaction to abuse by employers, removing the government interference that protects employees would almost certainly mean reverting to abuse of employees by employers again.
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