The Abrahamic Religions make No Sense

[Tony_Stark]

IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

Tony_Stark said:

IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

 There is your same problem again. He didn't know that it could happen; He knew exactly how it would happen. God doesn't go "Oh no, they didn't!" every time someone makes a decision. He has predicted them all.

Well, aside from the obvious flaws in your logic, I see that you keep saying there is a god, which mean you are not an athiest. And if you are, claiming that religion is folly, is just plain ignorant since athieism is, in fact, a religion per Websters dictionary. 

Anyway, more to the point of your OP, and your quoted post, God, as Christians believe him to be, does not "predict" anything, he knows it. Now, I'm a father of three, and as a parent, I understand how this works more than I ever did before I was a parent. You see, God gave us free will, the ability to think independantly, to make our own choices, we are not just another animal roaming this planet, this is why we as a species are so much more "evolved" than any other species on the planet. God knows what our choices and actions will be, but does not intervene because he gave us that free will. That free will is what allows us as humans to grow, to learn what we can and can't do. It is how each of us is able to "grow" as an indivual because every choice has consequences either good or bad, and it is by those consequences that we become a stronger, better person. Now, if I look at this as a parent, I see my oldest. I tell her to clean her toys up, I know that she won't, but because I want her to grow as a person I don't hold her hand and force her to clean up her toys. When she doesn't clean up her toys, she gets a punishment. After a while of doing this, she begins to learn that if she cleans up her toys, she won't get in trouble. If I held her hand and forced her to clean up the toys, she would never learn to do it herself, thus she would, in effect, be a drone. 

Flaws in my logic? Please do elaborate.

I don't really need to, this post, along with pretty much every single one of your posts in this thread thus far are all the "elaboration" that is needed. 

I don't think that there is a God, but kept assuming that there is for the sake of argumentation. And I used the word predict since God can predict everything flawlessly, which is the exact same as knowing. He flawlessly knows everything that will happen because He can predict it.

If you don't think there is a god, why do you keep saying there is one? Your whole stance this entire thread leads me to believe that deep inside, you know there is a god, and that terrifies you. Once again, predicting something and knowing something are two very different situations. I can predict who will win a baseball game...but only after the game is done do I know who won. After the game is done, I cannot predict because I know. 

Bolded: I beg to differ. Many times has God intervened with our free will. Jesus is a great example of this; Were it not for Jesus, lots of people would have acted differently today, effectively affecting our free will. God knew whta would happen if He would not have sent Jesus to Earth, but decided to do so in order to make us make different decision (for the better) throughout our lifetimes. And then there is the Noah's Ark story which Whiplash brought up earlier where God punished the humans for their decisions even before they had their chance to change their mind and ask for forgiveness. Even worse: God knew that he would drown those people before He created them, so why would He create life if it would just end up in pain for the individual and everyone surrounding it?

Wrong again, Jesus NEVER interviened with free will, as such, neither did God. God sent Jesus to this earth for the sole purpose of giving us the ultimate sacrifice, that is why judeo Christians no longer sacrifice animals. Jesus is also the reason many of the ceremonial old testiment laws (such as sacrifices) are no longer practiced. Noah's ark is a prime example of what I said earlier, consequences for ones actions, at no time did God force the people of Earth to obey him, instead, he allowed them to exercise their free will, and thus reap the consequences. Nobody knows the true will of God when it comes to why he created people who he knew would die and most likely be sent to hell, but here is one fact you are overlooking. Those people did not die in vain. They are part of a lesson to future generations, in fact, one could argue that people who do not believe in God are put on this Earth to prove that God gives each of us free will. Anyway, if you believe in God, you likely believe there is life after death, which means our time on Earth is somewhat meaningless, except for the fact that God put us here (per the story of Adam and Eve in Genesis) to watch over the Earth, to take care of it.   

In fact, all Abrahamic religions fall prey to that lack of logic. Why create humans in the first place if you knew exactly which one would end up in heaven and which ones would end up in hell even before creating them? Why create life that is destined to live an ethernity in hell? God is responsible for their misery, He created them, and knew where they would end up. He also know where you and your daughter will end up once you die, and your free will cannot affect that knowlegde as it is determined by God.

No, those people, the ones who choose not to folow God, are solely responsible for their own misery in Hell. This is so typical of you people, you can't stand taking responsability for your own actions so you try to blame anybody you can. Fact of the matter is, if we didn't have free will, nobody would go to hell, we would be living in The Garden of Eden, things like the Flood, Sodam and Gomorrah, and the tower of Babel would never have happened. But then, we would not have the ability to think for ourselves, to determin what is wrong and right, we would, in essence, be another animal on this planet.   

 

Instead of thanking God for His support (which people who are born in Africa and who keeps stealing things cannot do), you should be glad that you are living the fortunate life that you are living instead of being born to simply go to hell. Be aware that the underlined in your quote box also functions as evidence that everything is determined.

Ah, sadly, once again, your premise is completely void of any logic. The people of Africa, many generations ago, would have known about God, they chose either not to believe, or not to pass the stories on down through the generations. There are missionaries in Africa spreading the Gospel, which the African people can choose to believe or not, and we do not, infact know, that God will send them all to Hell if they do not know of him, and lastly, nobody goes to Hell for stealing, that just shows how ignorant you are ON THIS SUBJECT ( a little disclaimer for the ban happy mods ) in fact, Jesus told one of the theives who was being crucified on a cross next to him, that he would see the thief in heaven. Also, the quoted text of mine that you underlined only serves to solidify my point. God doesn't want anybody to go to Hell, but he gives everybody free will, he knows the choices they will make and instead of turning them into mindless zombies so they can go to Heaven, he allows them to make the choices even though it will inevitable lead them to Hell. This really isn't rocket science, re-read my parenting example and actually think about it this time, while it's a little less serious, it is a perfect real world example of how this whole "free will" thing works.