IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
If you wanna discuss determinism, make your own thread or go to my "Fate exists?" thread. |
I am going to quote what you said, that caused this to change into a study of determinsim:
| IIIIITHE1IIIII said: Wrong. I have even managed to make my friend beieve that there can't possibly be an almighty God (which he previously though) and that the free will do not exist. Eventually, I even managed to make him believe that everything is determined (which we frequently talk about). And he will probably pass through that thought to other people. |
Those are your words. You said you have made it so both there isn't a God and free will doesn't exist. In this thread here, you combined both, through an argument on foreknowledge. HOWEVER, if I read your original post, what I see is you acting as if you were Calvinistic in nature, and what I read harkened to Calvinistic theology. Maybe you were not being honest with you wrote this (your oriiginal post):
God is almighty, and He has every single ability that one may think of. This obviously includes the ablity to see the future, to flawlessly predict everything that will happen in this universe. God is aware of everything.
This makes you wonder though: If God really is almighty, then doesn't He already know who will end up in heaven and who will end up in hell? Would He not be able to predict every single good deed and sin that you will commit throughout your life, even before you were born? I mean, how could He not know?
As I see it, God is currently watching us go through happiness and misery just for the hell of it. He knows exactly how evil will affect all humans involved and He has the ability to stop it. He already knows how every single human will use their free (yet, by God, predictable) will, so it's not up to us to do anything about our situation.
Our fate is in God's hands. Period.
And that was your original post. The subject is that Abrahamic religions (among others) make no sense. Well, if you don't want to go into determinism, which appeared to be your angle on this (based on what you said later in the thread), then you are somehow going into foreknowledge + infinite power means no free will. And you disagreed strongly with the concept that both can exist and free will can exist when I said that it is possible to have local free will and global determinsm, or that God can always get what God wants, irregardless of what people do. Things work out in the end, and it is possible for all things working togeher for good. If there is a game, it is entirely possible that someone play someone else, exercise their decision making, make moves and always lose to someone else.
In reality the arguments on determinism, particularly the one I posted, are more challenging, and borderline more interesting, than the one you wrote about. Bluntly, if you think you are going to persuade the world via a slow crockpot which has stuff like this thread in it, I believe you are going to end up disappointed. I actually personally find the Farnsworth Paradox more interest. In that one, logic and free will cannot coexist in the same universe. You can scroll back several pages to find the link to the video on it.
