TheProphet said:
bluesinG said:
TheProphet said:
bluesinG said:
TheProphet said:
As to creation, the Bible does not give a date. Some people have tried to use the Bible to make that calculation many years ago. However, nowhere does the Bible say just how long ago. The Bible does say emphatically that God created the universe. NASA has discovered the age of the universe. It has a beginning, therefore it was created. If you believe that the universe created itself out of nothing then you are taking an enormous leap of faith. Something does not come from nothing. Where did all the matter come from?" An where did intelligence come from? There is no law of physics that says that life, and especial intelligence, will come into being. That's like saying that there is a law of nature that turns rocks into brains. It is false. There is no such law.
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Who created god? Did god create themself out of nothing?
I don't see how saying "god has existed since the beginning of time; there was nothing before god" makes any more sense than saying "the universe has existed since the beginning of time; there was nothing before the universe."
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fyi, time was created with the universe. This was discovered by our smartest scientists. God did not exist from the beginning of time. God existed BEFORE time. The universe is about 14 billion years old according to NASA. Time was created with the matter of the universe. Since God can create time and matter God must be able to control time. The only way to control time is to be immune to it. i.e. (that is) God is timeless, immortal, always was. Therefore God was not created, but is immortal. This Biblical description of God is in perfect harmony with our most advanced science. For people who believe in God, which is over ninety percent of the world, we have no conflict between science and our believe in God.
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I hope you realize the flawed logic of that statement. In any case, you're avoiding the question: Where did god come from? Who or what created god?
Logically, saying "god has always existed; nothing created him or caused him to exist" is no more satisfying than saying "the big bang was the beginning of time; we don't know what caused it".
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The logic is not flawed. Perhaps my explanation was inadequate. I will try again.
The universe and time were created. Only a God could create time and a universe.
Since God created time with the universe there was no time until God created it. (I realize this is a difficult concept, but it is worth trying to understand.) Therefore there could never be anything before God because time did not exist before God created it.
The reason this explanation is satisfying because it is based on a consistent appreciation of advanced science. It is not based on a faulty comparison between before and after time was created.
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I know what you meant to say. When time began, god already existed.
But you still haven't addressed my argument. You've argued that (1) something can't spontaneously come into existence from nothing, and (2) the big bang was something, so therefore (3) the big bang must have been caused/created by something (for example, god).
By the same logic, I'm arguing that (1) if something can't spontaneously come into existence from nothing, and (2) god is something, then (3) god must have been caused/created by something.
To accept the existence of god, I think you have to accept that either (a) something (for example, god) CAN spontaneously come into existence from nothing, or (b) god was caused/created by something. So which one of those two premises (a or b) do you accept? Can something spontaneously come into existence from nothing, or was god caused/created by something?
