IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
Plaupius said:
You did bring up the quantum effects, but you've since stated that you believe in determinism. And I'm not really arguing about whether we have free will or not, as that is irrelevant. We perceive ourselves as having free will to make decisions. Ironically, the cause for that perception does not matter.
However, using your definition of free will (autonomous and independent, as I recall. Correct me if I'm wrong.) the situation is not as clear cut if you consider how our consciousness is born. Autonomous to do what, and independent from what? What about random events that happen within the consciousness? It seemed to me you defined free will as akin to a point source, which is most definitely is not, if it exists.
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Well, I wouldn't separate random things that occur within and outside of our consciousness as they both ultimately does nothing but affect our decisions (and thus, our "free" will). In other words: For the will to be free, it cannot be materialistic, which is why I don't think that there's a free will to begin with. I think I explained that as a paradox earlier by saying something like "The only possible way for us to actually have an independant will (that is unaffected by randomness) is if the world is entirely determined, which makes the will dependent of something else."
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For the sake of argumentation, lets assume that our consciousness and free will are inseparable and that both exist. (Just so I don't have to write a disclaimer every time I mention free will :)
If the free will is not a point source but rather a volume in space, then there is a very big difference between inside and outside since it is the totality of what goes on inside that gives rise to our consciousness/free will. Since you didn't correct me, I'm assuming that your definition of free will is that it is autonomous and independent. By that definition, free will is possible if it, as a unit, is autonomous and independent with regards to the outside. What happens in the inside is totally irrelevant. The question then becomes: is our consciousness capable of making decisions sans any input from the outside? Based on what I've read of brain research and cognitive psychology, the answer is a definite maybe. Sensory deprivation quickly leads to hallucinations, i.e. the brain making up input, which then leads to some kind of reactions and decision making processes.
