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Sal.Paradise on 20 April 2012
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_mevildan said:
Sal.Paradise said:
_mevildan said:
Sal.Paradise said:
_mevildan said:
Only played Gears 1 and that was pretty bad, almost laughable even. But it's oscar worthy compared to game writing found in Vanquish. Without a doubt for me the lamest story and writing of the generation, but still a fantastic game in the end.


I think you didn't understand the intent of Vanquish's dialogue then. 


OK, sure. Feel free to enlighten me on what I didn't understand. Just a few examples of dialogue that was well done that was driving home their intent, and I'll be sorted.

I know the game is supposed to be cheesey arcade fun. I love cheese. Good cheese = Escape from New York. Vanquish is just bad cheese, but thankfully the action is brilliant.

I got the feeling the game was at once an homage to the corny American action movies, especially the one you mentioned, and also a parody. It seemed very obvious to me but I googled it and, lo and behold 

It’s got that great G.I. Joe sense of good guys taking on bad guys, which plays directly into the style of dialogue we were going for in Vanquish. In essence, Vanquish is tinged with parody, but not the point of being overt. I read a review that said, “It’s hard to tell whether it is taking the piss or not, which in itself may well be the intention.” Many of the dialogue lines in Vanquish are way over-the-top, but then again, you are talking about a group of super-powered space marines attacking a colony the size of a small city in space. I think it would be incredibly strange if they played things overly straight faced, so why not have fun with things? Why not make the characters aware of not only the ridiculousness of the situation, but also the varied cultural influences that lead to the creation of a game like Vanquish. My intent, at least with the English script, was not fan service, but rather making sure the game never forgets what it is – a game. There are plenty of companies working towards the serious. We never forget we are making games. I love that. As that same review said, “We weren’t sure if we were laughing at it, or with it, but we were definitely laughing.” Perfect.

I'd like to know what you think separates good cheese from bad cheese when it comes to dialogue? It's an interesting discussion, and a distinction I'm not 100% sure about, I just seem to get a sense that magic happens when a narrative hits the mark of a balance between self-seriousness and self-derision, and I felt that was accomplished in Vanquish.

Well these things are subjective of course, but I'll explain my dislike for Vanquish's writing...

Sam in Vanquish is extremely bland and hard to really like. None of the dialogue the characters spew forth is memorable. It's stiff and dull. The plot doesn't serve as a platform for any of it's characters to shine. It's overly complicated. The better cheese is normally more about it's characters' foibles.

Now, using Escape from NY as a counter example... I find it genuinely funny and the character of Snake is very likeable even though totally unbelieveable. Another good example is the Evil Dead series. Ash is a riot, especially in Army of Darkness. The plot is ludicrous, but very funny and Bruce Campell gives wonderful performances.

So what it comes down to for me really is that the good cheese is still well acted and delivered, and most of all funny. Vanquish is badly voiced with a mind numbing plot and zero memorable or genuinely funny dialogue. Even if you make something intentionally silly or corny, you can still do a good or bad job at it.

It's interesting to read the writer's intent there btw, but it didn't work out very well I think.

Haha, I agree with all those points individually, but I still think Vanquish did a great job at most of the points you listed as a negative, so I don't think we'll convince eachother of anything here

I thought the rivalry between Sam and Burns stood out to me, their first meeting especially. Two stupidly gruff men in stupidly big tech outfits trying to one-up eachother in machismo, and the first thing they do is have an old fashion knife fight with Burns chopping off the tip of Sam's cigarette,  Sam shouting with 'What the fuck man??' and Burns quipping 'you're not allowed to smoke on the ship' while there's a fucking high tech space war raging on in the background. 

Anyway, at least we can agree the action gameplay is top notch!