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IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
pezus said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
pezus said:
You're taking a very strict view of the meaning of free here. It's all about what free means.


If you have a free will, then you can shape the future. If you don't have a free will then the future and all your future decision are predetermined or determined by randomness, giving you no control of your actions.

We all shape the future in our own way, thus we have free will. Q.E.D.

But we don't decide how to shape it. Our experiences (which could be determined or random) is what makes us decide how to shape the future.



Our experiences are not determined or random, it's not as simple as that. Our experinces have a lot to do with how other people have influenced us, by making their own choices. That's how societies change, when people decide that they don't want to follow what's politically correct, that's how views on sexism, racism, etc. change over time and in different places.

Of course you are influenced by society, but you're not totally bound by it. In the end you live in an environment and of course you don't have total control over it (who you're gonna meet on a given day, etc.), but you have control over the decissions that you can take in the immediate present with the choices given to you (that can be somewhat "random", yeah, but mostly due to other people's own choices).

Long story short: you're not God and you are influenced by some randomness and especially other people's own decissions, but you are free within those limits, which realistically are impossible to break. If you think not being able to break those limits is not beeing free, you may as well say not being able to break the laws of physics is not being free.

No troll is too much for me to handle. I rehabilitate trolls, I train people. I am the Troll Whisperer.