-Why I Pirate- Is piracy justifiable?

[Reasonable]

Runa216 said:

TheMythmaker said:
Really? It's not letting my text show up? Screw it :

@Runa216

This hurts my head...it cannot be fully justified, and yet, having said that, you proceed to try and justify it anyway?

Anyway, firstly, "copying." Allow me to take your argument to its full extension. Say someone buys an ebook off Amazon, cracks it, and starts giving it away for free. Is this different from someone ordering a book off of Amazon, copying it exactly, and giving it away for free? Would you find this just as irreprehensible?

Secondly, your assertions are naive. Intentions apply to cause, not effect. You can't simply say "it's okay if we copy it, because we did it just to have fun, and they did it for personal gain." Leaving completely aside how messed up that philosphy would be applied broadly, it's still morally reprehensible to take what isn't yours when the person who made it wants you to pay for it.

Finally, "wouldn't have paid for it anyway?" People aren't entitled to specific forms of entertainment. They don't have the right to play the games they want if they can't afford them. Heaven forbid that they have to save up to pay for the game they want to play. No, they have a god-given right to play that game right now, rather than a few months down the road when it's dropped in price.

Okay, maybe that's not fair, but people pick and choose their entertainment based on what they can afford. If you had enough money to watch a movie in theaters, how are you justified sneaking into an IMAX, for instance?

Thirdly, a production team for a game consists of hundreds of contributors, few of them "millionaires." And while their salary might not ride on the success of the product, their job security does, to an extent. A studio whose game doesn't sell well is probably going to feel the effects, don't you think?

The whole point of the argument was to show that it has a strong dichotomy of morality.  On one hand there's nothing you can do to justify stealing something, assuming you see it that way. However, on the flipside, if you don't see it as stealing (which I don't), then there's no need to justify it.  Does that make more sense? 

The book analogy is the exact same as a cam rip, DVD rip, or game copy, no need to go to outside sources for it.  As it stands, I fail to see how copying a game, movie, book, or anything else is, in the eyes of the publisher, any worse than lending it.  They don't own it, they just have a copy of it.  The publisher didn't get money from it, but do you see any issue with lending games to a friend?  This piracy issue is little more than a global trading camp, the only difference  is that anyone can borrow it from anyone else rather than having to have a friend nearby who has it.  Again, the effect on the publisher is the same, but they've turned this into a 'theft' thing, pretending it's a crime becuase they see the opportunity to make more money.  

How is it naieve? that would imply I'm only looking at the flowery half or something equally inane.  No, I simply see both sides of the argument here and am prepared to argue either side, depending on what others say. (bascially, if people were all pro piracy, I'd be going aggresive anti-piracy, as it stands it's a nice balance so I'm just kinda dicking around.)  

But either way, the point still stands.  I know a lot of people who pirate, none of which have the means to buy the stuff, bills are expensive, hours got cut, sacrifices had to be made.  Such is the economy.  While some pirates do it for stupid or selfish reasons, most just can't afford it.  While you say we 'have no right to a luxury' (not your words, paraphrasing here), how is this any different from borrowing it from a friend?  if I don't have Family Guy season 1 to watch at my leisure, how hard is it to go next door to my friend's place and say "hey, can I borrow your family guy?" The effect is the same to the publishers, they still don't get money from me watching their show, and nobody has a problem with that.  They haven't for years, decades even.  

I think this rumor of the next Xbox not playing used games is far more harmful to the economy than piracy ever was.  I'd gladly take the lesser of 2 evils, though like I said, I still prefer owning stuff to borrowing it or pirating it. 

I think you're missing the key difference with music, films, games etc. vs books and traditional physical content which is why all those mediums have been so worried about piracy.

If I give you a loan of a book I no longer have it.  You do.  If I re-sell the book I give it up myself.  There is only ever one version of that book.

Piracy for books is illegally printing more copies and selling them.  Now we have copies.

With DVDs, CDS, and Games the issue is you can make a copy and keep it.  So now you could install a game onto your PC, give it to a friend but keep playing yourself.  That's always been the central issue.  Our current model for buying/selling revolves around the concept there is one item you buy and which you either keep or give up (either to loan or sell).  Digitial media destorys that concept.

Of course genuinely borrowing isn't an issue nor should it ever really be - but that's not what is being targeted - it's just collaterall damage (to use that phrase) in a battle against something else - which is passing on and keeping a copy, and this happening to the extent that the amout of freely gained copies vastly outweighs the original which was bought.  Most companies would rather hurt the ability to borrow if it stopped piracy than endure the piracy.

The danger, whatever the reasons behind it, is to kill the very medium being pirated.  The only reason games, films, etc. are still made, sold, etc. is because enough people buy fairly to provide a profit despite the pirates - if this ever crossed a tipping point you'd see drastic respones I'm sure (I mean way beyond DRM, etc. seen now).  Then you'd have an industry probably jointly deciding to go fully digitial with a great deal of DRM used to drastically hamper copying and with sysem locks and other measures used to punish caught offenders.

Look at Steam - great service, which I love, but carefully built on a model which looks to minimize copying of content.  It allows gifting, etc. (which was always a very smart move by Valve) and generally makes you feel you get a great service as a buying customer - the important point being buying customer.

Ultimately in a monetary society creators, be them producing a game, making a film or recording music need to be guaranteed a certain degree of income.  People tend to focus on the hugely successful creators and forget the majority of media can struggle already to make money in the face of current piracy levels.