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richardhutnik on 24 October 2011
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SamuelRSmith said:
superchunk said:
WE are all the 99%. Those of you who argue this and don't understand what's really happening are the fools.

Its not communism vs capitalism. Its the super-rich vs everyone else. Its the push for modern slavery hidden by mirrors and a few carrots.


You are right, it's not capitalism vs communism. The OWS movement seems to be mainly socialism in the terms of European socialism - greater Government intervention, socialized programs, greater regulation of the markets -  with a few anti-capitalists thrown in. Nor is the otherside of this battle (that is, the status quo) capitalism. The status quo is a mixture of light European socialism with huge lumps of corporatism (bail-outs, subsidies, tax loop holes, etc).

I think the main problem for people like me, and those who are "part of 99%", but not agreeing with these protestors, is that we feel the protestors have it wrong, or are just confused. I mean, if you watch the video in the OP, the first protestor is claiming that the Government is bailing out and propping up corporations - which is true -  however, he calls this capitalism, which is false... his solution also seems to be "more Government". Well, the fact of the matter is, the more Government you have, the more corporatism you have. Basically - the more things Government controls, the more things the lobbyists control.

The fact of the matter is, we have too many people in power who don't understand economics, and we have too many people on the streets that don't understand economics. Friedman/Smith/Hayek should be on the reading lists for all high-schools (of course, in corporate America, with a Federal education system, this will never happen). Ron Paul said it right when he said [paraphrased] "the only problem with Austrian economics, is that most people don't understand them".

I don't see, in what I understand in the Occupy movement, and how it is working locally where I am, that whenever a General Assembly meeting is, and someone would propose a blanket blocking of capitalism, you couldn't just block it and disagree.  The approach looks like consensus to it, and you are free to go down and express your mind regarding it.  Particularly people on the anarchist side would end up speaking against the entire more government approach.

I would say to go down peacefully and engage there.  Feel free to donate some books on real capitalism.  I would say to try to shape the issue to be against Crony Capitalism.  I know with myself, I am pointing to "Fear the Boom and the Bust" and the sequel, when discussing things when I go.  End the Fed is welcome there.  Some may not agree with it, but it certainly isn't shouted down.  I also believe a get out of debt message would fit also.

Again, engage in this, and see.